I noticed Deleatherus shows the same value, 153,400 influence on the linked spreadsheet vs. the chart from the forums back in Aug 2017.
So he either totally ceased buying anything or the spreadsheet is using Aug 2017 data as its source.
One other thing I noted, Caspian show up on the spreadsheet with 5M influence. So he could potentially override any vote on the NA-W server should he choose to do so? (Just asking as I don't know.)
Oh, should have added on. It's the same, just added on for known alts. So yeah, can't really tell much overall. Just those like Adam, that were more public with their alts.
Also no idea why Caspian is shown as 5mil. I have no idea why the guy that made the spreadsheet put him in there. All we know from Caspian, is he will have two characters. Some random on NAW, got count through the free kingdom event, so on NAE.
The geopolitical boundaries and relationships between the different domains is extremely important for the conflicts and engagements that will happen after launch. The kings, dukes, and counts that must manage those domains and settle those conflicts should naturally have the most say on what their borders look like.
But we didn't want to limit the vote to just the nobility and aristocracy, so more generally basing on influence allows us to achieve the previous goal while more broadly allowing influential people to have a say.
And finally, we've given out well over 100,000 in influence to people for community participation, managing our wiki, moderating reddit, participating in the forums, etc. So its important to remember purchasing isn't the only way people have gotten influence.
That would make sense, if the common thought wasn't, that nobles would lose their titles within a few months. I remember even Caspian saying on discord, he wouldn't be surprised if a king lost his title within a month.
Most nobles themselves, don't seem to think they would hold their title longer than a year. So it doesn't make any sense to throw them such power. For a game that has a storyline lasting 10 years. That people have admitted they doubt anyone would hold power longer than a year. That somehow means nobles should pick the map? Does that honestly make sense to you?
So many people that are simple commoners now, maybe the true rulers come launch. Cause they show they have the skill. Over people right now, who just happen to have the money. But this whole vote, is just saying they don't matter.
While Caspian adding that bit on the end. That's just funny. Trying to make it seems it's alright cause they have given out some IP. I remember people saying how much they got from being active on the forums. Most got around a few/several hundred. Not enough to really count for anything.
Maybe SBS should have just stuck with nobles+ picking. Not like even 100 commoners is going to mean much against the whales anyway. When the details come out later this week, I'm going to be dam surprised if people love this idea all together. But then, I doubt those annoyed would say anything anyway.
While I know you are just posting what Caspian was saying @mystichaze, be nice to hear your thoughts about the whole deal.
The geopolitical boundaries and relationships between the different domains is extremely important for the conflicts and engagements that will happen after launch. The kings, dukes, and counts that must manage those domains and settle those conflicts should naturally have the most say on what their borders look like.
But we didn't want to limit the vote to just the nobility and aristocracy, so more generally basing on influence allows us to achieve the previous goal while more broadly allowing influential people to have a say.
And finally, we've given out well over 100,000 in influence to people for community participation, managing our wiki, moderating reddit, participating in the forums, etc. So its important to remember purchasing isn't the only way people have gotten influence.
That would make sense, if the common thought wasn't, that nobles would lose their titles within a few months. I remember even Caspian saying on discord, he wouldn't be surprised if a king lost his title within a month.
Most nobles themselves, don't seem to think they would hold their title longer than a year. So it doesn't make any sense to throw them such power. For a game that has a storyline lasting 10 years. That people have admitted they doubt anyone would hold power longer than a year. That somehow means nobles should pick the map? Does that honestly make sense to you?
So many people that are simple commoners now, maybe the true rulers come launch. Cause they show they have the skill. Over people right now, who just happen to have the money. But this whole vote, is just saying they don't matter.
While Caspian adding that bit on the end. That's just funny. Trying to make it seems it's alright cause they have given out some IP. I remember people saying how much they got from being active on the forums. Most got around a few/several hundred. Not enough to really count for anything.
Maybe SBS should have just stuck with nobles+ picking. Not like even 100 commoners is going to mean much against the whales anyway. When the details come out later this week, I'm going to be dam surprised if people love this idea all together. But then, I doubt those annoyed would say anything anyway.
While I know you are just posting what Caspian was saying @mystichaze, be nice to hear your thoughts about the whole deal.
The inconsistency in action and words is merely continuing. It's nothing new, either here or with other crowdfunded projects. The funders, in general (as in, the majority of backers who have contributed a reasonable amount, whales at a certain level of contribution literally buy the ear time of the devs), have no real power to say no when devs go AWOL with asinine decisions. It's likely THE most attractive thing to developers about crowdfunding.
While I know you are just posting what Caspian was saying @mystichaze, be nice to hear your thoughts about the whole deal.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:02 PM
It does concern me how it is being percieved by outside communities though.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:04 PM
Concieved? hehe... I know what you meant. It is being looked at as those with the deepest wallets get peferencial treatement.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:07 PM
I have put alot of money into CoE as well and it really won't bother me if all votes were equal. Just saying
------------------------------ Sounds as though Misty realizes that what Caspien is spinning doesn't really make sense and is trying to open the door for him to take another look at it.
I think deep down anyone who looks at it and sees that "GhettoMaster's" vote counts 1000 times a basic player's knows there is something fundamentally wrong. And that giving an average of 5 "free IP" to all the players is just a silly distraction.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Thanks for that Slapshot. Reading the discord chat now. Kind of makes lack of sense really. From Caspian saying this:
*it's fine. I don't feel on the spot. This isn't something I've concerned myself with as weighting it based on influence just seems like the right way to go. One person, one vote, implies everyone is impacted equally by the outcome, but it's clear to me that those who govern or who have been active in building communities have the most to lose by the outcome. So weighted seems like the right choice.*
I can't see how everyone wouldn't be impacted the same way. I get the logic he is trying to show, kings/dukes will matter somewhat more. But that simple man sailing the 7 seas. Could see more of the world than some king hiding within his castle. With how different it will look, seems that simple commoner could be affected the same way. More so ones wanting to explore the world.
From how I'm understanding it. The game only matters at the top. Yet if they wanted to roll with that idea. They could just give people a fixed number of votes, by their title. So using examples, all mayors get 10 votes. Counts 25 and so on. Making them feel important, but not throwing it out so badly that only their votes matter.
But it's really just another way to throw a bone to all the massive communities. Reminds me much of the idea they threw around so long back about swearing fealty. Which again just throws even more power to the massive kingdoms.
Don’t forget that the Free Kingdoms came with no IP... or so I remember. So anyone that joins that Kingdom or a town inside it will be at a huge disadvantage...
But it’s OK because “GhettoMaster” will welcome them...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Official rules will be published in 3 days and voting will start in 7 days. With that said, I'd love to hear some predictions! Anyone care to venture a guess as to how the map voting rules and results will be received by the CoE community?
Do you think it'll be another name selection scenario, where SBS is completely surprised by trolls? Will the peasants revolt when they realize that their votes are basically obsolete, when compared to the most influential? Will map selection be delayed? Will SBS change the rules after they're published? Will there be bugs with the voting system? Can SBS be trusted to run a fair election?
While I know you are just posting what Caspian was saying @mystichaze, be nice to hear your thoughts about the whole deal.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:02 PM
It does concern me how it is being percieved by outside communities though.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:04 PM
Concieved? hehe... I know what you meant. It is being looked at as those with the deepest wallets get peferencial treatement.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:07 PM
I have put alot of money into CoE as well and it really won't bother me if all votes were equal. Just saying
------------------------------ Sounds as though Misty realizes that what Caspien is spinning doesn't really make sense and is trying to open the door for him to take another look at it.
I think deep down anyone who looks at it and sees that "GhettoMaster's" vote counts 1000 times a basic player's knows there is something fundamentally wrong. And that giving an average of 5 "free IP" to all the players is just a silly distraction.
Haha.. Don't try to do to me what you do to CoE all the time Slapshot, those are a few selected quotes directed to a couple of different people. You purposely left out the ones where I stated that the reasoning Caspian gave me was exactly what I thought it was going to be, I was just looking for clarification.
Torrsk I don't voice my opinions here anymore because if you aren't on the bash CoE wagon you are ridiculed for your opinions. Or you have shit like this where Slap is trying to twist the things you say into something they aren't.
As for the Map Voting.. I have absolutely no problem with it and no problem with the response I got from Caspain. We are voting for the shape of a map, no big deal to anyone really except for the Nobility for strategic purposes. .
While I know you are just posting what Caspian was saying @mystichaze, be nice to hear your thoughts about the whole deal.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:02 PM
It does concern me how it is being percieved by outside communities though.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:04 PM
Concieved? hehe... I know what you meant. It is being looked at as those with the deepest wallets get peferencial treatement.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:07 PM
I have put alot of money into CoE as well and it really won't bother me if all votes were equal. Just saying
------------------------------ Sounds as though Misty realizes that what Caspien is spinning doesn't really make sense and is trying to open the door for him to take another look at it.
I think deep down anyone who looks at it and sees that "GhettoMaster's" vote counts 1000 times a basic player's knows there is something fundamentally wrong. And that giving an average of 5 "free IP" to all the players is just a silly distraction.
Haha.. Don't try to do to me what you do to CoE all the time Slapshot, those are a few selected quotes directed to a couple of different people. You purposely left out the ones where I stated that the reasoning Caspian gave me was exactly what I thought it was going to be, I was just looking for clarification.
Torrsk I don't voice my opinions here anymore because if you aren't on the bash CoE wagon you are ridiculed for your opinions. Or you have shit like this where Slap is trying to twist the things you say into something they aren't.
As for the Map Voting.. I have absolutely no problem with it and no problem with the response I got from Caspain. We are voting for the shape of a map, no big deal to anyone really except for the Nobility for strategic purposes. .
Which, per your and the other fans' passionate assertions, could very well be one of those basic starter package backers a month after release.
Tell me again why current nobles should get more power in determining those starting lines again...
Imteresting how Mystic never responded to the fact that 100000 ip over 20000 accounts is an average of 5. Vs GhettoMasters 400000+ for himself. 5 IP = 50 cents. Wow... that’s certainly generous of him.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Imteresting how Mystic never responded to the fact that 100000 ip over 20000 accounts is an average of 5. Vs GhettoMasters 400000+ for himself. 5 IP = 50 cents. Wow... that’s certainly generous of him.
Really there isn't anything to say since IP isn't rewarded to all members, but rather it is only rewarded to members for community participation, managing the wiki, moderating reddit, participating in the forums, recruiting new members etc. Since that number is only a small percentage of the entire community, it is fairly generous of SBS.
I read somewhere that Vox-Elyra failed, which is kinda a pity, because then they could have just let players make their own maps however they saw fit as opposed to voting on anything.
They could sell some "World Builder" package, and let the "God Level" players go all "Mine Craft" on a blank World Base, and all they would need to do is give them the blocks to make whatever they want, and in the end, the world also becomes fully destructible using this method, so it's a Win-Win.
The map makers could make whatever they wanted, and the players could modify it as they saw fit.
Not to mention it would save tons of time because then their team would not need to build maps at all, players do all that for them and pay for the privilege to do so.
Pity Vox-Elyra didn't take off.. or maybe it did.. again.. no idea.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Don’t forget that the Free Kingdoms came with no IP... or so I remember. So anyone that joins that Kingdom or a town inside it will be at a huge disadvantage...
They did get IP. Got something like half the amount. So the guy that won, Phyllain, had people give him around $14,000 worth of tokens. Got half that amount in IP. So ended up with around 70k IP. Then all the EP from the tokens themselves. That kingdom ended up sitting pretty dam nicely. If they can work together, they be better off the other kingdoms. More so entering with so many dukes/counts. Was also the best way to get into the 10k club. Since all counts that won via that got in, even if they only got 13 tokens. Or whatever the lowest amount was. Somewhat funny really.
Torsk you said account merging hadn't happened, I merged my accounts ages ago...
No I said when the IP lists were up, account merging had not happened. So was roughly impossible to tell how high people really were. Unless they were open about it.
One could argue, why they didn't work on this from the get go. I do wonder how much time has been wasted going from MUD to this. While can only hope they don't drop this for something new and shiny in the coming months.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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Come to think.of it, how many designs from the original plan have been dropped so far?
SpatialOS, Prelude(?) Vox Elyria, something else I think.
Vs ......what exactly delivered? Anything?
A few back end things. Like surname selection/merging accounts. But probably why map voting is so important to them. First thing to really deliver on, that matters to more people at least. While I doubt it will go smoothly, would be surprised if some form of trolling didn't happen
Torsk you said account merging hadn't happened, I merged my accounts ages ago...
No I said when the IP lists were up, account merging had not happened. So was roughly impossible to tell how high people really were. Unless they were open about it.
Ah ok I will confess I did speed read on that day so must have misread/misunderstood your post.
Can someone please bring me up to speed, does all of this boil down to game having a P2W aspect? Or is there something else going on?
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Can someone please bring me up to speed, does all of this boil down to game having a P2W aspect? Or is there something else going on?
Yes! No! Maybe so?
As these "maps" don't really exist, nor much of anything else we've seen it is difficult to predict if one map will provide any real advantage from a gameplay or strategic advantage.
It clearly is PFA (Pay for advantage) in terms of those who have the most influence (mostly from paying more) will get to decide what map a server has.
So it's one way to "win" but unlikely to impact the average player.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Imteresting how Mystic never responded to the fact that 100000 ip over 20000 accounts is an average of 5. Vs GhettoMasters 400000+ for himself. 5 IP = 50 cents. Wow... that’s certainly generous of him.
Really there isn't anything to say since IP isn't rewarded to all members, but rather it is only rewarded to members for community participation, managing the wiki, moderating reddit, participating in the forums, recruiting new members etc. Since that number is only a small percentage of the entire community, it is fairly generous of SBS.
What percentage of IP is not based purely on money or $10 tokens? You don’t need to be exact. I can do the math for you if you need (I think Kyleran did some earlier).
Then let me know how that percentage makes you feel as someone who disputes the pay for advantage tag.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Am I the only one who finds this pay for "advantage" label nonsense stupid? It's either pay 2 win or it's not in my book. Which I'm sure you don't need me to tell you which one I think CoE is.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Also no idea why Caspian is shown as 5mil. I have no idea why the guy that made the spreadsheet put him in there. All we know from Caspian, is he will have two characters. Some random on NAW, got count through the free kingdom event, so on NAE.
Most nobles themselves, don't seem to think they would hold their title longer than a year. So it doesn't make any sense to throw them such power. For a game that has a storyline lasting 10 years. That people have admitted they doubt anyone would hold power longer than a year. That somehow means nobles should pick the map? Does that honestly make sense to you?
So many people that are simple commoners now, maybe the true rulers come launch. Cause they show they have the skill. Over people right now, who just happen to have the money. But this whole vote, is just saying they don't matter.
While Caspian adding that bit on the end. That's just funny. Trying to make it seems it's alright cause they have given out some IP. I remember people saying how much they got from being active on the forums. Most got around a few/several hundred. Not enough to really count for anything.
Maybe SBS should have just stuck with nobles+ picking. Not like even 100 commoners is going to mean much against the whales anyway. When the details come out later this week, I'm going to be dam surprised if people love this idea all together. But then, I doubt those annoyed would say anything anyway.
While I know you are just posting what Caspian was saying @mystichaze, be nice to hear your thoughts about the whole deal.
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:02 PM
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:04 PM
Misty Summers (Mystichaze)Yesterday at 11:07 PM
------------------------------
Sounds as though Misty realizes that what Caspien is spinning doesn't really make sense and is trying to open the door for him to take another look at it.
I think deep down anyone who looks at it and sees that "GhettoMaster's" vote counts 1000 times a basic player's knows there is something fundamentally wrong. And that giving an average of 5 "free IP" to all the players is just a silly distraction.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
*it's fine. I don't feel on the spot. This isn't something I've concerned myself with as weighting it based on influence just seems like the right way to go. One person, one vote, implies everyone is impacted equally by the outcome, but it's clear to me that those who govern or who have been active in building communities have the most to lose by the outcome. So weighted seems like the right choice.*
I can't see how everyone wouldn't be impacted the same way. I get the logic he is trying to show, kings/dukes will matter somewhat more. But that simple man sailing the 7 seas. Could see more of the world than some king hiding within his castle. With how different it will look, seems that simple commoner could be affected the same way. More so ones wanting to explore the world.
From how I'm understanding it. The game only matters at the top. Yet if they wanted to roll with that idea. They could just give people a fixed number of votes, by their title. So using examples, all mayors get 10 votes. Counts 25 and so on. Making them feel important, but not throwing it out so badly that only their votes matter.
But it's really just another way to throw a bone to all the massive communities. Reminds me much of the idea they threw around so long back about swearing fealty. Which again just throws even more power to the massive kingdoms.
But it’s OK because “GhettoMaster” will welcome them...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Torrsk I don't voice my opinions here anymore because if you aren't on the bash CoE wagon you are ridiculed for your opinions. Or you have shit like this where Slap is trying to twist the things you say into something they aren't.
As for the Map Voting.. I have absolutely no problem with it and no problem with the response I got from Caspain. We are voting for the shape of a map, no big deal to anyone really except for the Nobility for strategic purposes. .
Tell me again why current nobles should get more power in determining those starting lines again...
Imteresting how Mystic never responded to the fact that 100000 ip over 20000 accounts is an average of 5. Vs GhettoMasters 400000+ for himself. 5 IP = 50 cents. Wow... that’s certainly generous of him.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They could sell some "World Builder" package, and let the "God Level" players go all "Mine Craft" on a blank World Base, and all they would need to do is give them the blocks to make whatever they want, and in the end, the world also becomes fully destructible using this method, so it's a Win-Win.
The map makers could make whatever they wanted, and the players could modify it as they saw fit.
Not to mention it would save tons of time because then their team would not need to build maps at all, players do all that for them and pay for the privilege to do so.
Pity Vox-Elyra didn't take off.. or maybe it did.. again.. no idea.
No I said when the IP lists were up, account merging had not happened. So was roughly impossible to tell how high people really were. Unless they were open about it.
One could argue, why they didn't work on this from the get go. I do wonder how much time has been wasted going from MUD to this. While can only hope they don't drop this for something new and shiny in the coming months.
SpatialOS, Prelude(?) Vox Elyria, something else I think.
Vs ......what exactly delivered? Anything?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As these "maps" don't really exist, nor much of anything else we've seen it is difficult to predict if one map will provide any real advantage from a gameplay or strategic advantage.
It clearly is PFA (Pay for advantage) in terms of those who have the most influence (mostly from paying more) will get to decide what map a server has.
So it's one way to "win" but unlikely to impact the average player.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can do the math for you if you need (I think Kyleran did some earlier).
Then let me know how that percentage makes you feel as someone who disputes the pay for advantage tag.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018