Originally posted by Wighty Before there were addons as such, you had some margin for error because you had to "figure it out"... situations were a bit more forgiving because the developers weren't challenged with having to create encounters where some mod is telling the player exactly what and how to do something. Encounters today feel like a country line dance where everyone moves in unison because they are told exactly how and where to move.It is almost a guarantee that Wildstar will follow the above "must have this addon to play this game" format, I just hope ESO limits what is possible with addons so the game doesn't become just another twtich style combat dance dance revolution simulator.
Last night I dropped in on a WildStar steam where a person was using enough mods that the game was indistinguishable from WoW. (not intended as a knock on WS).
ESO already has scrolling combat text and modified health bars. I don't know about threat meters but if you can set up SCT you can probably make a DPS meter.
Staff is allowed to troll. We all know on this website being compared to WoW is an insult.
Wildstar and WoW are two different animals. I'm sure addons will be abundant in Wildstar, but Carbine has done an excellent job without the need for addons really, I think they have the right balance.
ESO add ons - I feel for those that don't want them. They do ruin the games. I don't know if you can block them if your going to allow any you allow all and dps meters especially are annoying, but then again so is the guy that you're grouped with that can't pull his own weight, and his excuse is hewas ttrying to avoid damage even though he took the most and did the least dps. Might as well be grouped up with a dead dog at that point.
Can't affect me if I don't use them. We all have a choice about add-ons whether we use them or whether or not we stick around people who DEMAND them. I'm not letting anyone demand shit out of me in this game. If some guild tells me they are mandatory for grouping with them I'll leave their guild or not join at all once learning the rules.
Too many whizzbangs and doodleydoos is not why I'll be picking up this game. I don't feel threatened in PVP by other people having them because I know that I'm smarter than so many other people on the planet that their UI is not going to help them. In fact, it might take their eyes away from what they should be doing, watching me instead of concentrating on scrolling gobbledy gook.
If they will affect you then you are playing a follower role. Never in a game has anyone been able to influence what I use on my hotbars and no way in hell will they talk me into installing things I don't want to use. I had my time with add-ons back in WOW and found them to make the game too easy and when people whined that we couldn't raid because their add-ons weren't updated, I saw just how reliant they were on them. They weren't playing the game, they were playing the add-ons so let them do what they like but I'm out of that set of people.
Excellent post. What other people do shouldn't bother you. If people ask you to have an add-on, either install it or don't play with them. Or prove to them that you're just as good without it. If you're just as good, it won't be an issue. If you don't have an add-on and suck as a result.. well.. work on getting better.
People in PUGs often will ask me to get in voice to listen to strats, but frankly, i don't always want to be in voice. So i tell them that i know what i'm doing and if i screw up, i'll join voice. I don't screw up and i don't have to listen to them. At the same time, if i'm clueless about a given dungeon or about the character i'm playing, i'll be the first to get in voice and try to learn how to NOT screw up. Just a simple example since voicechat is one of the most common add-ons used in games.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
No, they won't kill the game. I was worried over the same thing, but in my extensive delving, I discovered that Zenimax has protected a number of functions from being accessed by modders. From what I've seen, they can't make any add-on that uses a skill for you or targets an enemy or likewise controls your characters movement (so we won't see any of the ridiculousnes that cropped up in WoW like Healbot or Warlock Buddy or other essential add ons that took most skill from the game.) I'm not sure yet if they can make one that picks potions for you appropriate to the situation (like if you get low health it automatically slots one.) I hope they can't, but if so, that's minor compared to the others, and wouldn't be immersion breaking, though it would certainly be an advantage in pvp.
The type of combat in ESO really cuts back on the effectiveness of addons. The more crap you put on your screen, the less you can react to things going on around you. It's not like WoW or other slow-paced games where you don't even have to use hotkeys, but actually have time to click on all the crap on your screen. You have to be active dodging, blocking, bashing, etc.
I suspect the only really useful add-ons that might be competitively important are things like buff timers, debuff timers (which also let you know what effects are currently on you,) and potentially a mini map (though I'm really hoping this one doesn't work out, because the way the map is currently implemented actually makes sense from an immersion point of view.) The buff timers don't bother me that much since they were already present in other elder scrolls games, and it's not very fun to memorize the timers of every spell in the game (though it would certainly provide another avenue for player skill to make an impact--so I really wouldn't mind if it weren't implemented.)
The one add-on I'll certainly use, which I think a lot of people will agree is helpful, is a loot-addon that actually tells you what you just looted when using autoloot. It's annoying as hell having to open up inventory to see what I picked up.
I very much doubt that add-ons will "kill this game", lol
Find some people that don't use add-ons to regulate their play, and group with them.
I'll use add-ons for sure, but not ones that tell me when to do what. There's more to add-ons than raid choreography and DPS meters.
Don;t misunderstand me, I like addons, I just hate when a game forces you to use a particular addon in order to participate. Furthermore when the developers now have to create content around these mods, because the particular mod makes the content less challenging.
Add ons that improve visuals, social experience, perhaps some UI tweaks are great... You can tailor the look and feel of the game to your liking.
What game forces you to use addons? Devs do not build around them, if it was intrusive to their work they would just disable the the use of such mods. Games like Rift and Wow have high use of addons simply because the games were designed with mechanics that favor the use of timers and data. When you have 25 people in a raid and everyone is handling the mechanics well, but the boss is hitting the enrage timer, how would you know who is doing low DPS without a meter?
Addons will actually save this game because the players will be able to make up for everything the devs skipped over in favor of pushing the launch. Remember back when SWTOR launched and you couldnt modify your UI for the longest time? Yea that was one of the things that drove many people away. Supporting addons is a heck of a lot better than not allowing them at all. And because of the nature of the combat in ESO, I don't see them having exactly the same impact that they do in WoW.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus I hope they step away from mods that do anthing else then revisualising the UI
Why? Does it effect how you play?
I am a firm supporter of mods, let them be as intrusive as the authors want them to be. Choice and freedoms are what distinguish good games from bad. And Mods give players plenty of choices.
This doesn't work in competitive games. If this were Starcraft 2, you'd basically be saying, "It's okay if someone uses maphack or an auto-larvae injector program, because they should have plenty of choices." Anything that plays the game for you is called a hack in other games, anything that gives you important information not available to other players is also called a hack.
That's why even the buff timer mod shouldn't really be available. It's not fair to those who don't want to ruin their screens and immersion--if Zeni was going to allow it, they should've implemented it themselves. Sadly, I don't see these visual indicators being blocked off in addons. Still, that's not as bad as a Healbot clone, or a mini map that lets you see enemy players. Or other mods that would be possible if Zeni wasn't clamping down on it.
For me personally, it would kill the game for me and I have never enjoyed a beta more than this game ever. Think it maybe one reason I loved AOC, I played the game with zero mods and at the time nobody every even mentioned them except for a dps parse. I love the "gritty" part of this game and AOC vs Wildstar or WOW. When I first logged in WOW and saw threat meters I was like wtf is this garbage easy mode. It kills skillful players to me, knowing how to play a dps class correctly without pulling aggro and so forth. Also for tanks too. I believe players should play by "feel" instead of things flashing telling them what to do. It would be like a Quarterback have something flash to throw it to a certain WR and it guarantees a completion or TD. I haven't played but a little bit of WOW but have read many comments on it and seen many of the mods. To me it completely takes all the fun out of the game. All this is just my opinion of course and many may disagree.
Originally posted by Tyr216 Addons will actually save this game because the players will be able to make up for everything the devs skipped over in favor of pushing the launch. Remember back when SWTOR launched and you couldnt modify your UI for the longest time? Yea that was one of the things that drove many people away. Supporting addons is a heck of a lot better than not allowing them at all. And because of the nature of the combat in ESO, I don't see them having exactly the same impact that they do in WoW.
Actually, Zenimax already had buff timers, loot log, mini map, and other crap in the game during the early betas. Pretty sure they even had floating damage text and a proper combat log. However, their PTR players said they took away a lot of the immersion and made it feel like WoW instead of Elder Scrolls, so the devs stripped it all out and put in the minimalist interface they have now. Zeni decided to allow addons so people who liked that WoW style could put it back in. The only thing they didn't really consider though (in their ignorance, imo,) is how important information like that becomes if only one side has access to it in a PvP conflict. For a game with so much focus on RvR, it's really quite silly of them to say, "We took this out, but here if you want you can put it back in."
It won't kill the game. But it will certainly turn more people away then if they'd just left it one way or the other.
Are any of the other MMOs that allow add-ons dead?
No.
Theres your answer.
This really depends on your definition of 'dead'. Also, WoW lost millions of subscribers when they allowed their addons to get out of control. That's why they started clamping down on them and banning particular addons/addon functions.
In the beginnings of mmos there were no addons needed. I always play game till today without them, because i don´t need them. If people would use their brain most "problems" could solved without addons. Only junkies in my opinion need them, to say to everyone: i am so good, i do 1 dps more than you^^.
Mods will allow people to take the edge in PvP, thus I will never take the PvP seriously in this game - this is probably working as intended/by design, given the classes/races imbalances as well.
I actually don't mind having a fun game before a balanced game, if I am in this "non competitive" frame of mind that I have for ESO.
Originally posted by Hellbabe In the beginnings of mmos there were no addons needed. I always play game till today without them, because i don´t need them. If people would use their brain most "problems" could solved without addons. Only junkies in my opinion need them, to say to everyone: i am so good, i do 1 dps more than you^^.
Very naive.
You've never tried PvP before, have you? Wasting 1 second to cast a spell on a particular target can mean the difference between life and death.
To me its the competitive advantage that people have using them. Even leveling , there is already stuff like, search for all quests this level. It gives people a huge advantage in leveling speed. I don't care about leveling the fastest, I just think everything should be on equal playing ground. Nobody should have an advantage for with add-ons in my opinion. Like somebody else said, that is the same thing as a hack to me. You can download an outside tool that makes you better than somebody else that wasn't implemented by the developers. I don't want other gamers designing advantages in game that wasn't implemented by Zenimax. And yes I know Zenimax is going to allow it, but the day I feel like I have to download them to be on equal level them I will stop playing immediately. I know I am only one player and many will like it but for me it is a gamebreaker unless its something like a simple UI mod that doesn't give you an advantage playing the game.
In general I prefer games without the extra mods running. I want to play the game not the UI. Nothing is more boring than watching meters instead of playing the game.
Well I'll be keeping clear of the add-ons, I see no point to UI ones either but I'm happy to live with UI that games comfy with.
If players want me to use a certain mod or certain skills I don't, rotation etc .. Well they can can go sit n swivel if they keep on about it, or pay my sub. Their choice.
Originally posted by Spawnblade Originally posted by XiaokiAre any of the other MMOs that allow add-ons dead?No.Theres your answer.
This really depends on your definition of 'dead'. Also, WoW lost millions of subscribers when they allowed their addons to get out of control. That's why they started clamping down on them and banning particular addons/addon functions. Correlation implies causation now?
While no one forces anyone to use mods... Mods in a sense take over a game to the point where if you DO NOT choose to install them you are at severe disadvantage.
When the content is being generated (by devs) to keep up with the mods because players are demanding a challenge causing players that do not have add ons like DBM or mods of that sort cannot compete.
The core vanilla WOW experience (that was relatively light on mods) compared to some of the later expansions rally fragmented the community because there were those "in the know" in terms of necessary mods vs those who were "noobs" and never heard of "curse" or whatever mod site.
Developers that support the use of mods that severely alter game play potentially shoot themselves in the foot because now they need to keep up with the demand of the mods. WOW changed it's mod capabilities several times because some mods allowed players to be OP by chaining skills etc.
I am not against mods and in some ways they enrich the gameplay experience, it is when you are forced to use certain mods in order to participate in activities such as PvE and PvP it becomes and issue...
For all the white knights out there don't play stupid... You know as well as I do that in many cases there are guolds and/or groups that outright FORCE and DEMAND you install certain gameplay mods in order to participate in content said guild pursues. It is this type of activity that is disgraceful and while yes you can say "if you don't like it too bad" or "don't join that guild etc" I should be able to enjoy all the content without the NEED for such gameplay enhancements and play the game as it was intended too....
You all know as well as I do if you tried to play a game like WOW today and attempt endgame activities without any sort of mods it would be next to impossible to do so.
I say this because now your reaction time is tied to when a particular mod tells you in flashing letters "Get out of the poo" or "Incoming explosion attack take cover" all the while you have your team yelling for more DPS/heals/threat because your meters are running low because you took a split second more time to take cover.
You only need a mod to tell you to "Get out of the poo" if your game is so poorly designed that it properly communicate this to the player via in-game means. Design the game better from the start so mods aren't needed to play it well. That is - make your poo clearly visible, make the boss's animation and dialogue clearly visible/audible when he is spawning the poo... and THOSE things will be better than needing some mod.
Same thing for DPS, if you're going to design a boss encounter that requires X dps to defeat, then include an in-game way for people to tell what dps they are doing. If you don't, then it encourages people to see this info elsewhere.
It is HARD to make challenging PvE content. So things like movement, positioning and coordination of damage and heals will remain a big part of it. But if you design your game to have these elements, you better provide in-game means for people to interact with them.
An example of this is telegraphs in ESO - you can easily see which area to avoid, so there is no need for any kind of third part program to tell you "do not stand in front of mob", because it is both quicker and easier for players to just pay attention to what's IN GAME. And even if someone DOES have some kind of add-on that gives them a voice trigger, it's not REQUIRED to play the game, because you can just react based on mob's telegraph.
It's all about game design. Sadly, ESO seems to be content with not providing much in-game stuff and letting people make their own. So yeah.. it is what it is. Given how little in-game info is provided, at this point i think it's the other way around where NOT having mods would kill the game.
People keep breaking out the bad design crap on bs like this. What about paying attention or the lack thereof?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Don;t misunderstand me, I like addons, I just hate when a game forces you to use a particular addon in order to participate. Furthermore when the developers now have to create content around these mods, because the particular mod makes the content less challenging.
You're blaming the wrong thing.
The game doesn't force you to use those add-ons. You aren't required to have those loaded to enter an instance/raid.
People force themselves to use them, or otherwise allow others to coerce them into doing so.
The game provides the information necessary to defeat the encounters. It's up to the players to pay attention, be aware, learn the patterns/tells/attacks and learn to coordinate themselves accordingly.
These fights are tested over and over and over again by in-house testers and/or playtesters before they ever make it to the live servers. They are attempted, learned and completed without the use of add-ons. If they can do it... so can anyone else.
The people who complete content and create "how-to" guides have to complete these encounters without the use of such aids. No such info exists until they create it.
The people who create the addons for these encounters have to learn the encounters, otherwise they don't know what info to provide, or when, or to whom.
If all those people can complete the encounters without addons.. So can anyone else. It's a matter of patience, persistence and trial and error.
The problem is that these days, people have become absolute slaves to add-ons. People will often argue that everything before end-game is just "a long tutorial or training period, for end game". Then they get to end-game and rely on add-ons to spell out all the things they'd otherwise have to learn themselves. They can't function without them, and they can't even fathom the game being do-able without them. The training wheels never come off.
The irony is how many of these people will tell someone who doesn't want to use them to "lrn2play" or whatever other similarly ridiculous remark. Ironically, the the person attempting the fights without addons is learning them. They're not relying on pop-ups telling them when to do what. They're learning it on their own - or perhaps following a guide they found somewhere, but ultimately still carrying out those steps themselves.
Suggest to people to not use addons, and you get "Yeah, right.. Then wipe over and over", as though not winning on the first or second, or even third attempt is beyond comprehension to them.
Yes. Exactly. Wipe over and over. Wipe as many times as it takes for your group to learn the encounter(s) work out a strategy and effectively carry it out without needing some "addons" to hold your hand. Wipe as many times as it takes to earn the victory on your own efforts, skill and knowledge... not on someone else's provided via nifty pop-ups and meters convniently placd on your screen.
Why don't that fly? Because people don't want to have to learn the encounter. They aren't even interested in the encounters. They just want the rewards at the end. It's not about the experience of playing the game. It's about getting that shiny at the conclusion. That's why they don't want to really learn the encounters, and that's why they insist on using addons. Because they don't want to experience the content.. They just want to get it over with.
As for aesthetic addons.. things that change or enhance the look of the UI, or otherwise provide functionality that does not impede or overlap with actual gameplay... No problem with those at all.
It does sound like ESO is headed in the right direction: designing a functional minimalist UI that stays true to the last game, and lets the community adjust the UI through mods.
The biggest push back seems to be the between the players who want the performance metrics, and the players who felt slighted in other games by those very same metrics. My playing the game using metrics to get better does not diminish your enjoyment of the game. If you feel left behind by the groups who are using metrics, catch up, or play with like-minded people who don’t want them.
I say this because now your reaction time is tied to when a particular mod tells you in flashing letters "Get out of the poo" or "Incoming explosion attack take cover" all the while you have your team yelling for more DPS/heals/threat because your meters are running low because you took a split second more time to take cover.
You only need a mod to tell you to "Get out of the poo" if your game is so poorly designed that it properly communicate this to the player via in-game means. Design the game better from the start so mods aren't needed to play it well. That is - make your poo clearly visible, make the boss's animation and dialogue clearly visible/audible when he is spawning the poo... and THOSE things will be better than needing some mod.
This is pretty much how all of them do it. Its just that people still want add ons.
You dont have to add any mods to your game, whats the downside of letting others who want them have them? Worst case some random person tells you hey your dps is low.
At the end of the day your visual and game experience is your own and you can be as vanilla with your UI as you want but why deny others from some customization.
Im all for not allowing any kind of mods that give you PvE advantages / warning such as a deadly boss mods in WoW as these do take skill out of the game, and can basicaly be "manditory" now adays as blizzard developes there boss encounters around several phases / mechanics.
So far what I have exerpienced in ESO the PvE is not the same 50 mechanic driven fights its a lot more reactionary rather than routines, so I dont think a deadly boss mods style mod would have the same impact in this game atleast atm. I however have no issue with people wanting ui mods / dps meters. Not everyone uses dps meters just to try and be num 1 and bitch at everyone else for being below them, they are a great tool for learning how to do the most damage out of your own character through testing with the mod running. I really enjoy min maxing my dps rotations as well as its nice to see how skills are actualy performing in a long period of time can really make you rethink what skills you thought where your best and what not.
Comments
Last night I dropped in on a WildStar steam where a person was using enough mods that the game was indistinguishable from WoW. (not intended as a knock on WS).
ESO already has scrolling combat text and modified health bars. I don't know about threat meters but if you can set up SCT you can probably make a DPS meter.
Staff is allowed to troll. We all know on this website being compared to WoW is an insult.Wildstar and WoW are two different animals. I'm sure addons will be abundant in Wildstar, but Carbine has done an excellent job without the need for addons really, I think they have the right balance.
ESO add ons - I feel for those that don't want them. They do ruin the games. I don't know if you can block them if your going to allow any you allow all and dps meters especially are annoying, but then again so is the guy that you're grouped with that can't pull his own weight, and his excuse is hewas ttrying to avoid damage even though he took the most and did the least dps. Might as well be grouped up with a dead dog at that point.
Excellent post. What other people do shouldn't bother you. If people ask you to have an add-on, either install it or don't play with them. Or prove to them that you're just as good without it. If you're just as good, it won't be an issue. If you don't have an add-on and suck as a result.. well.. work on getting better.
People in PUGs often will ask me to get in voice to listen to strats, but frankly, i don't always want to be in voice. So i tell them that i know what i'm doing and if i screw up, i'll join voice. I don't screw up and i don't have to listen to them. At the same time, if i'm clueless about a given dungeon or about the character i'm playing, i'll be the first to get in voice and try to learn how to NOT screw up. Just a simple example since voicechat is one of the most common add-ons used in games.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
No, they won't kill the game. I was worried over the same thing, but in my extensive delving, I discovered that Zenimax has protected a number of functions from being accessed by modders. From what I've seen, they can't make any add-on that uses a skill for you or targets an enemy or likewise controls your characters movement (so we won't see any of the ridiculousnes that cropped up in WoW like Healbot or Warlock Buddy or other essential add ons that took most skill from the game.) I'm not sure yet if they can make one that picks potions for you appropriate to the situation (like if you get low health it automatically slots one.) I hope they can't, but if so, that's minor compared to the others, and wouldn't be immersion breaking, though it would certainly be an advantage in pvp.
The type of combat in ESO really cuts back on the effectiveness of addons. The more crap you put on your screen, the less you can react to things going on around you. It's not like WoW or other slow-paced games where you don't even have to use hotkeys, but actually have time to click on all the crap on your screen. You have to be active dodging, blocking, bashing, etc.
I suspect the only really useful add-ons that might be competitively important are things like buff timers, debuff timers (which also let you know what effects are currently on you,) and potentially a mini map (though I'm really hoping this one doesn't work out, because the way the map is currently implemented actually makes sense from an immersion point of view.) The buff timers don't bother me that much since they were already present in other elder scrolls games, and it's not very fun to memorize the timers of every spell in the game (though it would certainly provide another avenue for player skill to make an impact--so I really wouldn't mind if it weren't implemented.)
The one add-on I'll certainly use, which I think a lot of people will agree is helpful, is a loot-addon that actually tells you what you just looted when using autoloot. It's annoying as hell having to open up inventory to see what I picked up.
What game forces you to use addons? Devs do not build around them, if it was intrusive to their work they would just disable the the use of such mods. Games like Rift and Wow have high use of addons simply because the games were designed with mechanics that favor the use of timers and data. When you have 25 people in a raid and everyone is handling the mechanics well, but the boss is hitting the enrage timer, how would you know who is doing low DPS without a meter?
This doesn't work in competitive games. If this were Starcraft 2, you'd basically be saying, "It's okay if someone uses maphack or an auto-larvae injector program, because they should have plenty of choices." Anything that plays the game for you is called a hack in other games, anything that gives you important information not available to other players is also called a hack.
That's why even the buff timer mod shouldn't really be available. It's not fair to those who don't want to ruin their screens and immersion--if Zeni was going to allow it, they should've implemented it themselves. Sadly, I don't see these visual indicators being blocked off in addons. Still, that's not as bad as a Healbot clone, or a mini map that lets you see enemy players. Or other mods that would be possible if Zeni wasn't clamping down on it.
Are any of the other MMOs that allow add-ons dead?
No.
Theres your answer.
Actually, Zenimax already had buff timers, loot log, mini map, and other crap in the game during the early betas. Pretty sure they even had floating damage text and a proper combat log. However, their PTR players said they took away a lot of the immersion and made it feel like WoW instead of Elder Scrolls, so the devs stripped it all out and put in the minimalist interface they have now. Zeni decided to allow addons so people who liked that WoW style could put it back in. The only thing they didn't really consider though (in their ignorance, imo,) is how important information like that becomes if only one side has access to it in a PvP conflict. For a game with so much focus on RvR, it's really quite silly of them to say, "We took this out, but here if you want you can put it back in."
It won't kill the game. But it will certainly turn more people away then if they'd just left it one way or the other.
This really depends on your definition of 'dead'. Also, WoW lost millions of subscribers when they allowed their addons to get out of control. That's why they started clamping down on them and banning particular addons/addon functions.
I hate mods.
Mods will allow people to take the edge in PvP, thus I will never take the PvP seriously in this game - this is probably working as intended/by design, given the classes/races imbalances as well.
I actually don't mind having a fun game before a balanced game, if I am in this "non competitive" frame of mind that I have for ESO.
Very naive.
You've never tried PvP before, have you? Wasting 1 second to cast a spell on a particular target can mean the difference between life and death.
(it's not about brains, it's about speed)
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Well I'll be keeping clear of the add-ons, I see no point to UI ones either but I'm happy to live with UI that games comfy with.
If players want me to use a certain mod or certain skills I don't, rotation etc .. Well they can can go sit n swivel if they keep on about it, or pay my sub. Their choice.
Correlation implies causation now?
Many of you are missing the point...
While no one forces anyone to use mods... Mods in a sense take over a game to the point where if you DO NOT choose to install them you are at severe disadvantage.
When the content is being generated (by devs) to keep up with the mods because players are demanding a challenge causing players that do not have add ons like DBM or mods of that sort cannot compete.
The core vanilla WOW experience (that was relatively light on mods) compared to some of the later expansions rally fragmented the community because there were those "in the know" in terms of necessary mods vs those who were "noobs" and never heard of "curse" or whatever mod site.
Developers that support the use of mods that severely alter game play potentially shoot themselves in the foot because now they need to keep up with the demand of the mods. WOW changed it's mod capabilities several times because some mods allowed players to be OP by chaining skills etc.
I am not against mods and in some ways they enrich the gameplay experience, it is when you are forced to use certain mods in order to participate in activities such as PvE and PvP it becomes and issue...
For all the white knights out there don't play stupid... You know as well as I do that in many cases there are guolds and/or groups that outright FORCE and DEMAND you install certain gameplay mods in order to participate in content said guild pursues. It is this type of activity that is disgraceful and while yes you can say "if you don't like it too bad" or "don't join that guild etc" I should be able to enjoy all the content without the NEED for such gameplay enhancements and play the game as it was intended too....
You all know as well as I do if you tried to play a game like WOW today and attempt endgame activities without any sort of mods it would be next to impossible to do so.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
People keep breaking out the bad design crap on bs like this. What about paying attention or the lack thereof?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It does sound like ESO is headed in the right direction: designing a functional minimalist UI that stays true to the last game, and lets the community adjust the UI through mods.
The biggest push back seems to be the between the players who want the performance metrics, and the players who felt slighted in other games by those very same metrics. My playing the game using metrics to get better does not diminish your enjoyment of the game. If you feel left behind by the groups who are using metrics, catch up, or play with like-minded people who don’t want them.
This is pretty much how all of them do it. Its just that people still want add ons.
Addons became popular in AC remember?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
what does it matter to you what other people do?
You dont have to add any mods to your game, whats the downside of letting others who want them have them? Worst case some random person tells you hey your dps is low.
At the end of the day your visual and game experience is your own and you can be as vanilla with your UI as you want but why deny others from some customization.
Im all for not allowing any kind of mods that give you PvE advantages / warning such as a deadly boss mods in WoW as these do take skill out of the game, and can basicaly be "manditory" now adays as blizzard developes there boss encounters around several phases / mechanics.
So far what I have exerpienced in ESO the PvE is not the same 50 mechanic driven fights its a lot more reactionary rather than routines, so I dont think a deadly boss mods style mod would have the same impact in this game atleast atm. I however have no issue with people wanting ui mods / dps meters. Not everyone uses dps meters just to try and be num 1 and bitch at everyone else for being below them, they are a great tool for learning how to do the most damage out of your own character through testing with the mod running. I really enjoy min maxing my dps rotations as well as its nice to see how skills are actualy performing in a long period of time can really make you rethink what skills you thought where your best and what not.