I believe that the OP has a point, to some extend. Blizzard went from full care bear to almost hardcore overnight. People with limited time who are not in a decent guild have a hard time actually getting somewhere in Cataclysm. PUGing heroics is a big no no at least for now. To much wasted time and frustration. Rated BG's DO require an organized group WITH voice communication otherwise you'll get steam rolled badly. The rewards you get from justice points, normal instances and BG's are bellow mediocre and not worth the time spend.
To cut it short, if you don't have plenty of time to invest and are not in a guild able to run heroics and raids then you may find it quite hard to progress and achieve something in Cataclysm.
Really, i'm so sick of everyone complaining and bitching about WoW going from easy to normal, this is NOT hard, there is nothing hard about it, if you want hard, go play EQ, attempt to raid that, hell, attempt to get a group to grind, its hard. This game is NOT hard, this game is as casual as you want it too be. I had an ilevel of 329 last night before i went into my first heroic as a shaman healer, and hey look, it was HoO didnt wipe or anything. Yeah some of them are more threat related, but is it THAT hard to press a button to CC a mob? ...
Im happy that people are getting pissed off about it, and that Blizzard is showing some balls for their game, by making people actually have to work for their armor. Im happy that the people who are putting time and actual effort are actually able to have something to show by it, i love it. And i hope Blizzard doesn't back down on their forward approach.
Honestly, what has the world of MMORPG players become? ..
Really, i'm so sick of everyone complaining and bitching about WoW going from easy to normal, this is NOT hard, there is nothing hard about it, if you want hard, go play EQ, attempt to raid that, hell, attempt to get a group to grind, its hard. This game is NOT hard, this game is as casual as you want it too be. I had an ilevel of 329 last night before i went into my first heroic as a shaman healer, and hey look, it was HoO didnt wipe or anything. Yeah some of them are more threat related, but is it THAT hard to press a button to CC a mob? ...
Im happy that people are getting pissed off about it, and that Blizzard is showing some balls for their game, by making people actually have to work for their armor. Im happy that the people who are putting time and actual effort are actually able to have something to show by it, i love it. And i hope Blizzard doesn't back down on their forward approach.
Honestly, what has the world of MMORPG players become? ..
I'm so tired of people painting EQ like it was the most difficult MMORPG of all time. It wasn't hard at all. There's nothing hard about standing next to a wall all day while waiting on someone to bring you one monster at a time for five hours. EQ was just a timesink.
Okay, The raiding in there actually required some sort of knowledge of your class, which is what i believe Blizzard is attempting to do with this new difficulty with the instances. They are making people learn their classes, learn what CD's to blow when, and when to spam heals, or when to regen some mana, they want people to know their classes more then everyone not knowing what they need to do and still getting rewarded for it. Im neither a Fanboy for EQ nor WoW cause i played both of them and do enjoy it, what i am a Fanboy of though, is a challenging game with some sort of substance other then oh yay, lets play for an hour, get 4 heroics done, and have all the awesome gear in the game without knowing anything about my class.
Raiding in EQ was hard, especially on a pvp server with most raids being open instanced, guilds would zerg, and you would need to know what to do when. it made it challenging, and fun.
Okay, The raiding in there actually required some sort of knowledge of your class, which is what i believe Blizzard is attempting to do with this new difficulty with the instances. They are making people learn their classes, learn what CD's to blow when, and when to spam heals, or when to regen some mana, they want people to know their classes more then everyone not knowing what they need to do and still getting rewarded for it. Im neither a Fanboy for EQ nor WoW cause i played both of them and do enjoy it, what i am a Fanboy of though, is a challenging game with some sort of substance other then oh yay, lets play for an hour, get 4 heroics done, and have all the awesome gear in the game without knowing anything about my class.
Raiding in EQ was hard, especially on a pvp server with most raids being open instanced, guilds would zerg, and you would need to know what to do when. it made it challenging, and fun.
That's just it though. People don't expect World of Warcraft to be hard, and its fanbase enjoys the ease in which they can obtain gear and the low barrier to entry in the raid scene. It's a casual game, and not everyone derives fun out of back breaking challenge. WoTLK was made for those people, yet Cataclysm appears to try to appease both groups by making leveling stupidly easy and the endgame far more difficult, but I fail to see how that appeals to anyone. Hardcores will scoff at how easy leveling is and probably quit while casuals will quit because gearing up for raiding has become such a painful experience.
Blizzard has to know who their audience is, and at this point, it isn't exactly filled with people who I think are all that thrilled about the recent changes. This is why I have to say that I'm not sure I understand the point behind making Cataclysm so much more difficult than WoTLK. Feels like the reverse of all the changes seen over the years in EQ2.
Blizzard has had Blue's state that they are keeping the changes, cause you know what's gonna happen? one or two months down the road, everyone, and EVERYONE will be able to do heroics with ease.
The expansion hasnt even been out for one month, people need to relax, and just enjoy the ride.
That's just it though. People don't expect World of Warcraft to be hard, and its fanbase enjoys the ease in which they can obtain gear and the low barrier to entry in the raid scene. It's a casual game, and not everyone derives fun out of back breaking challenge. WoTLK was made for those people, yet Cataclysm appears to try to appease both groups by making leveling stupidly easy and the endgame far more difficult, but I fail to see how that appeals to anyone. Hardcores will scoff at how easy leveling is and probably quit while casuals will quit because gearing up for raiding has become such a painful experience.
Blizzard has to know who their audience is, and at this point, it isn't exactly filled with people who I think are all that thrilled about the recent changes. This is why I have to say that I'm not sure I understand the point behind making Cataclysm so much more difficult than WoTLK. Feels like the reverse of all the changes seen over the years in EQ2.
WotLK changed a lot of things about WoW and Cata is just fixing those issues. In BC people had the option of running casual friendly dungeons and if they wanted something a little more challenging they could run heroics. In WotLK they removed the challenge from 5 mans so you either ran super easy normal 5 mans or easy heroics...not much of an option.
Now with Cataclysm, we have options again. You can run fairly easy normal 5 mans or choose the slightly more challenging heroics. Having multiple options is a wonderful thing and part of the reason WoW has grown to the size it is.
Okay, The raiding in there actually required some sort of knowledge of your class, which is what i believe Blizzard is attempting to do with this new difficulty with the instances. They are making people learn their classes, learn what CD's to blow when, and when to spam heals, or when to regen some mana, they want people to know their classes more then everyone not knowing what they need to do and still getting rewarded for it. Im neither a Fanboy for EQ nor WoW cause i played both of them and do enjoy it, what i am a Fanboy of though, is a challenging game with some sort of substance other then oh yay, lets play for an hour, get 4 heroics done, and have all the awesome gear in the game without knowing anything about my class.
Raiding in EQ was hard, especially on a pvp server with most raids being open instanced, guilds would zerg, and you would need to know what to do when. it made it challenging, and fun.
That's just it though. People don't expect World of Warcraft to be hard, and its fanbase enjoys the ease in which they can obtain gear and the low barrier to entry in the raid scene. It's a casual game, and not everyone derives fun out of back breaking challenge. WoTLK was made for those people, yet Cataclysm appears to try to appease both groups by making leveling stupidly easy and the endgame far more difficult, but I fail to see how that appeals to anyone. Hardcores will scoff at how easy leveling is and probably quit while casuals will quit because gearing up for raiding has become such a painful experience.
Blizzard has to know who their audience is, and at this point, it isn't exactly filled with people who I think are all that thrilled about the recent changes. This is why I have to say that I'm not sure I understand the point behind making Cataclysm so much more difficult than WoTLK. Feels like the reverse of all the changes seen over the years in EQ2.
This is so sad. Im so glad I dont play anymore.
People dont expect wow to be hard? Seriously? Ok maybe you kids who never played a mmo before, but most people who played through Vanilla and even BC miss those days. Sure wow was not "hard" back then, but hard enough that you actually felt like you achived something. WOW should never have changed to a casual game. It became casual because blizz (who is smart) changed it to casual because they knew then could generate more money.
It should take the avergae person 8-12 months to be able to Raid. After hitting top level it should still take months to build up the gear and experience to be able to Raid. Wotlk brough in the whole thing of hitting top level and raiding and doing heroics the same day. So sad and so happy I left.
I dont care how hard it is now, like said before enough people will QQ and blizz will change it back. I wish blizz could make two games. One for the kids and one for the mature adults who actually dont mind working for something. You kids are going to have an I opener when you get older and a company doesent hand you a managers position right away and to think you actually will have to work for something in your life to accomplish a goal and feel good about it.
Wanting a game to take 12 months to get to raiding doesn't make someone mature and anyone who doesn't want to play that way some sort of child. Comments like these seem a little childish to be honest.
I agree with the OP except on one point. While Tol Barad does mix PVE/PVP I didn't see if you had mentioned if you were on a PVP or PVE server. Tol Barad may just be a bit more fun if you were on a PVP server with a group of friends. Quest "Open World" pvp is exactly what some players were looking for. It is what it is.
"Alt" aclysm is exactly that. This expansion is made mostly for the person who enjoys level a million alts 1-60. While thats ok and I am probably one of those people I still enjoy doing end game stuff and achievements on one of my favorite characters. I am casual (Work a lot). I wouldn't consider myself terrible but I haven't been booted out of any group for bad DPS or messing something up. WHAT I have seen though is the worst players possible struggling, losing patience, mean spirited, and downright vitriol brought into this game. I am so shocked Blizzard would let this happen.
I cannot blame Blizzard completely because they really did listen to players this time in what they wanted for an expansion. I was in Beta since day 1 and you know what those forums were screaming. "MAKE IT HARDER, MAKE IT CHALLENGING" etc etc. They got their wish.
To redeem themselves I really agree with the OP. They need to pick who they are catering too and go with it. I have been in every single expansion and I can certainly tell you at level 85, this is one of the most un-necessarily difficult expansions yet.
Wanting a game to take 12 months to get to raiding doesn't make someone mature and anyone who doesn't want to play that way some sort of child. Comments like these seem a little childish to be honest.
No because anyone who wants something NOW is a kid. Only a mature adult knows that you must work at something to achieve something. If your an adult and want to play a game that you can finish in a few days then play a console game. MMO's were designed to be played over a long period of time. Anyone who started with MUD's or even BBS games like BRE understands this.
Raiding should be for people that have experience. Understanding your class and others. Understanding the mechanics of the game. Understanding how to work with a large group of people. Unfortunetly a large population of wows community does not understand any of those things.
No because anyone who wants something NOW is a kid. Only a mature adult knows that you must work at something to achieve something. If your an adult and want to play a game that you can finish in a few days then play a console game. MMO's were designed to be played over a long period of time. Anyone who started with MUD's or even BBS games like BRE understands this.
Raiding should be for people that have experience. Understanding your class and others. Understanding the mechanics of the game. Understanding how to work with a large group of people. Unfortunetly a large population of wows community does not understand any of those things.
So what is the cutoff line between kid and mature adult? Is is 5 months to max leve, 7? 12? How long does someone have to wait in order to get "something"? A few days, a week, 2053 hours?
My point is that you are expressing what YOU desire in an mmo. Calling anyone who may not agree with your personal idea of an mmo a child or something else to belittle them isn't very mature and quite frankly very closed minded.
There is no merriam-webster definition of what an mmo has to be or how long it has to take. Regardless of what mudds you played or how loudly you tell the new mmo-players to keep off your grass.
That's just it though. People don't expect World of Warcraft to be hard, and its fanbase enjoys the ease in which they can obtain gear and the low barrier to entry in the raid scene. It's a casual game, and not everyone derives fun out of back breaking challenge. WoTLK was made for those people, yet Cataclysm appears to try to appease both groups by making leveling stupidly easy and the endgame far more difficult, but I fail to see how that appeals to anyone. Hardcores will scoff at how easy leveling is and probably quit while casuals will quit because gearing up for raiding has become such a painful experience.
Blizzard has to know who their audience is, and at this point, it isn't exactly filled with people who I think are all that thrilled about the recent changes. This is why I have to say that I'm not sure I understand the point behind making Cataclysm so much more difficult than WoTLK. Feels like the reverse of all the changes seen over the years in EQ2.
WotLK changed a lot of things about WoW and Cata is just fixing those issues. In BC people had the option of running casual friendly dungeons and if they wanted something a little more challenging they could run heroics. In WotLK they removed the challenge from 5 mans so you either ran super easy normal 5 mans or easy heroics...not much of an option.
Now with Cataclysm, we have options again. You can run fairly easy normal 5 mans or choose the slightly more challenging heroics. Having multiple options is a wonderful thing and part of the reason WoW has grown to the size it is.
I agree its cool to be casual but it doesn't make sense to raid if you want to be casual. So enjoy the game's content and if you want to see endgame content prepare to learn your class.
That's just it though. People don't expect World of Warcraft to be hard, and its fanbase enjoys the ease in which they can obtain gear and the low barrier to entry in the raid scene. It's a casual game, and not everyone derives fun out of back breaking challenge. WoTLK was made for those people, yet Cataclysm appears to try to appease both groups by making leveling stupidly easy and the endgame far more difficult, but I fail to see how that appeals to anyone. Hardcores will scoff at how easy leveling is and probably quit while casuals will quit because gearing up for raiding has become such a painful experience.
Blizzard has to know who their audience is, and at this point, it isn't exactly filled with people who I think are all that thrilled about the recent changes. This is why I have to say that I'm not sure I understand the point behind making Cataclysm so much more difficult than WoTLK. Feels like the reverse of all the changes seen over the years in EQ2.
WotLK changed a lot of things about WoW and Cata is just fixing those issues. In BC people had the option of running casual friendly dungeons and if they wanted something a little more challenging they could run heroics. In WotLK they removed the challenge from 5 mans so you either ran super easy normal 5 mans or easy heroics...not much of an option.
Now with Cataclysm, we have options again. You can run fairly easy normal 5 mans or choose the slightly more challenging heroics. Having multiple options is a wonderful thing and part of the reason WoW has grown to the size it is.
I agree its cool to be casual but it doesn't make sense to raid if you want to be casual. So enjoy the game's content and if you want to see endgame content prepare to learn your class.
If you don't raid, there is no reason to play this game.
People wanted Wow to be back to vanilla and blizzard did so, it is hard and it is challenging, now that you have what you wanted to whine about it. It is the best expenson for Wow come to date.
To all the PVEers who said the games to be splitten in 2 part pvp and pve ? you guys were ganking us when we were questing now that we can pve in your pvp zone, you whine... Fair deal I say just WHINE MORE. I like it that way!
I can't for the life of me understand why people are surprised that they aren't overgeared enough to PUG heroics and raids/
Is this your first expansion release? Honestly, it's been like this each and every time. You weren't pugging Heroic Occulus, Old Kingdom etc until months after release and several instance nerfs (as well as more people getting more epics). TBC you're telling me you got to 70 and start pugging Karazhan? Yeahhhh right buddy. Kara wasn't pugged for a LONG time. You got to 70 and started doing Heroic Shadow Labs or Arcatraz? Hellll no. Maybe if you joined in months after release, but definitely not without a good guild group were you taking down most of the heroics in either expansion.
I don't play WoW, but I would openly welcome a challenge. If you can get the heroics done with no wipes with a PUG clad in pure blues then people complain about it being too easy.
It's always been Blizzard's style to release content at a fairly difficult level. Let the super elite nerds tackle that then start nerfing it down to let more and more people have access to it. Nothing new year.
Wanting a game to take 12 months to get to raiding doesn't make someone mature and anyone who doesn't want to play that way some sort of child. Comments like these seem a little childish to be honest.
No because anyone who wants something NOW is a kid. Only a mature adult knows that you must work at something to achieve something. If your an adult and want to play a game that you can finish in a few days then play a console game. MMO's were designed to be played over a long period of time. Anyone who started with MUD's or even BBS games like BRE understands this.
Raiding should be for people that have experience. Understanding your class and others. Understanding the mechanics of the game. Understanding how to work with a large group of people. Unfortunetly a large population of wows community does not understand any of those things.
It sounds more like you're talking to a subordinate at a corporation than some people about a video game. You must work something to achieve something? Whatever happened to it being a video game? Aren't they supposed to be fun and laughter, not blood sweat and tears?
Sure taking that long to get things done was cool back then, but I don't know about you, as a young adult I no longer have the time to commit to something like that.
Raiding should be for everyone. This whole elitist approach to it is so played out. The people that have experience and this and that are capable of doing more of the raids faster and they are able to tackle hardmodes and tribute runs. Seems about right to me.
This whole misconception that everyone needs to be as good as me to be in my endgame is quite silly and self centered. I played with some awful people sometimes in WoW, but they were cool people so ultimately it didn't really matter that they were slower or dropped the ball from time to time.
There were plenty of hardcore elite guilds where people had experience and a complete understanding with this and that. From my experience, those guilds were more often than not the most immature and childish guilds you could possibly imagine. All you have is a bunch of teens with some misplaced god complex because they read on elitistjerks.com how to setup their character properly.
That's just it though. People don't expect World of Warcraft to be hard, and its fanbase enjoys the ease in which they can obtain gear and the low barrier to entry in the raid scene. It's a casual game, and not everyone derives fun out of back breaking challenge. WoTLK was made for those people, yet Cataclysm appears to try to appease both groups by making leveling stupidly easy and the endgame far more difficult, but I fail to see how that appeals to anyone. Hardcores will scoff at how easy leveling is and probably quit while casuals will quit because gearing up for raiding has become such a painful experience.
Blizzard has to know who their audience is, and at this point, it isn't exactly filled with people who I think are all that thrilled about the recent changes. This is why I have to say that I'm not sure I understand the point behind making Cataclysm so much more difficult than WoTLK. Feels like the reverse of all the changes seen over the years in EQ2.
WotLK changed a lot of things about WoW and Cata is just fixing those issues. In BC people had the option of running casual friendly dungeons and if they wanted something a little more challenging they could run heroics. In WotLK they removed the challenge from 5 mans so you either ran super easy normal 5 mans or easy heroics...not much of an option.
Now with Cataclysm, we have options again. You can run fairly easy normal 5 mans or choose the slightly more challenging heroics. Having multiple options is a wonderful thing and part of the reason WoW has grown to the size it is.
I agree its cool to be casual but it doesn't make sense to raid if you want to be casual. So enjoy the game's content and if you want to see endgame content prepare to learn your class.
If you don't raid, there is no reason to play this game.
Maybe for you..but there are other reasons to play than to gear grind. Some poeple PVP, some RP, and there are some people that are toon freaks who like to reroll. Don't be so shallow. If you believe that raiding is the only thing left at the end of an MMO than good for you. Everyone is different.
That's just it though. People don't expect World of Warcraft to be hard, and its fanbase enjoys the ease in which they can obtain gear and the low barrier to entry in the raid scene. It's a casual game, and not everyone derives fun out of back breaking challenge. WoTLK was made for those people, yet Cataclysm appears to try to appease both groups by making leveling stupidly easy and the endgame far more difficult, but I fail to see how that appeals to anyone. Hardcores will scoff at how easy leveling is and probably quit while casuals will quit because gearing up for raiding has become such a painful experience.
Blizzard has to know who their audience is, and at this point, it isn't exactly filled with people who I think are all that thrilled about the recent changes. This is why I have to say that I'm not sure I understand the point behind making Cataclysm so much more difficult than WoTLK. Feels like the reverse of all the changes seen over the years in EQ2.
WotLK changed a lot of things about WoW and Cata is just fixing those issues. In BC people had the option of running casual friendly dungeons and if they wanted something a little more challenging they could run heroics. In WotLK they removed the challenge from 5 mans so you either ran super easy normal 5 mans or easy heroics...not much of an option.
Now with Cataclysm, we have options again. You can run fairly easy normal 5 mans or choose the slightly more challenging heroics. Having multiple options is a wonderful thing and part of the reason WoW has grown to the size it is.
I agree its cool to be casual but it doesn't make sense to raid if you want to be casual. So enjoy the game's content and if you want to see endgame content prepare to learn your class.
If you don't raid, there is no reason to play this game.
Maybe for you..but there are other reasons to play than to gear grind. Some poeple PVP, some RP, and there are some people that are toon freaks who like to reroll. Don't be so shallow. If you believe that raiding is the only thing left at the end of an MMO than good for you. Everyone is different.
agreed, it never ceases to amaze me how people think they are experts in the gaming industry and know what all the other millions of gamers want.
Wanting a game to take 12 months to get to raiding doesn't make someone mature and anyone who doesn't want to play that way some sort of child. Comments like these seem a little childish to be honest.
No because anyone who wants something NOW is a kid. Only a mature adult knows that you must work at something to achieve something. If your an adult and want to play a game that you can finish in a few days then play a console game. MMO's were designed to be played over a long period of time. Anyone who started with MUD's or even BBS games like BRE understands this.
Raiding should be for people that have experience. Understanding your class and others. Understanding the mechanics of the game. Understanding how to work with a large group of people. Unfortunetly a large population of wows community does not understand any of those things.
It sounds more like you're talking to a subordinate at a corporation than some people about a video game. You must work something to achieve something? Whatever happened to it being a video game? Aren't they supposed to be fun and laughter, not blood sweat and tears?
Sure taking that long to get things done was cool back then, but I don't know about you, as a young adult I no longer have the time to commit to something like that.
Raiding should be for everyone. This whole elitist approach to it is so played out. The people that have experience and this and that are capable of doing more of the raids faster and they are able to tackle hardmodes and tribute runs. Seems about right to me.
This whole misconception that everyone needs to be as good as me to be in my endgame is quite silly and self centered. I played with some awful people sometimes in WoW, but they were cool people so ultimately it didn't really matter that they were slower or dropped the ball from time to time.
There were plenty of hardcore elite guilds where people had experience and a complete understanding with this and that. From my experience, those guilds were more often than not the most immature and childish guilds you could possibly imagine. All you have is a bunch of teens with some misplaced god complex because they read on elitistjerks.com how to setup their character properly.
So both of you have a point but here is where the problem lies. With WOW moving away from the large 25-40 man groups, the 10 man groups don't have the room to *carry* people like they used to. Granted I enjoy just raiding and seeing new content but some people judge their enjoyment on how much they can accomphlish in a short time they have to play. When you say that "Raiding should be for everyone" thats like saying everyone should be a doctor and get all the money like a doctor without doing the work or knowing your profession. Its just not true.
I stopped playing WOW when I realized I didn't have the time to be hardcore and raid. Its not the games fault or Blizz's. Lets be honest, raiding takes structure, gear, and teamwork. Casual is fun but if you want to raid you should know by now that you have to do some work because nothing worth having should come easy.
I have to agree 100% with you on this thread, usually I would be in someone's face finding fault with their post defending WOW, but I tell you, this game is done "stick a fork in it".
I just cancelled my account along with my son and his 4 friends, WOW has had it's day, it is just monotone routine now.
Wanting a game to take 12 months to get to raiding doesn't make someone mature and anyone who doesn't want to play that way some sort of child. Comments like these seem a little childish to be honest.
No because anyone who wants something NOW is a kid. Only a mature adult knows that you must work at something to achieve something. If your an adult and want to play a game that you can finish in a few days then play a console game. MMO's were designed to be played over a long period of time. Anyone who started with MUD's or even BBS games like BRE understands this.
Raiding should be for people that have experience. Understanding your class and others. Understanding the mechanics of the game. Understanding how to work with a large group of people. Unfortunetly a large population of wows community does not understand any of those things.
It sounds more like you're talking to a subordinate at a corporation than some people about a video game. You must work something to achieve something? Whatever happened to it being a video game? Aren't they supposed to be fun and laughter, not blood sweat and tears?
Sure taking that long to get things done was cool back then, but I don't know about you, as a young adult I no longer have the time to commit to something like that.
Raiding should be for everyone. This whole elitist approach to it is so played out. The people that have experience and this and that are capable of doing more of the raids faster and they are able to tackle hardmodes and tribute runs. Seems about right to me.
This whole misconception that everyone needs to be as good as me to be in my endgame is quite silly and self centered. I played with some awful people sometimes in WoW, but they were cool people so ultimately it didn't really matter that they were slower or dropped the ball from time to time.
There were plenty of hardcore elite guilds where people had experience and a complete understanding with this and that. From my experience, those guilds were more often than not the most immature and childish guilds you could possibly imagine. All you have is a bunch of teens with some misplaced god complex because they read on elitistjerks.com how to setup their character properly.
So both of you have a point but here is where the problem lies. With WOW moving away from the large 25-40 man groups, the 10 man groups don't have the room to *carry* people like they used to. Granted I enjoy just raiding and seeing new content but some people judge their enjoyment on how much they can accomphlish in a short time they have to play. When you say that "Raiding should be for everyone" thats like saying everyone should be a doctor and get all the money like a doctor without doing the work or knowing your profession. Its just not true.
Come on man you didn't just seriously try to compare being a raider to being a doctor. I only hope for your sake that you can see the vast difference between the two. If not, maybe you're taking your raiding a little too seriously.
Comments
I believe that the OP has a point, to some extend. Blizzard went from full care bear to almost hardcore overnight. People with limited time who are not in a decent guild have a hard time actually getting somewhere in Cataclysm. PUGing heroics is a big no no at least for now. To much wasted time and frustration. Rated BG's DO require an organized group WITH voice communication otherwise you'll get steam rolled badly. The rewards you get from justice points, normal instances and BG's are bellow mediocre and not worth the time spend.
To cut it short, if you don't have plenty of time to invest and are not in a guild able to run heroics and raids then you may find it quite hard to progress and achieve something in Cataclysm.
Really, i'm so sick of everyone complaining and bitching about WoW going from easy to normal, this is NOT hard, there is nothing hard about it, if you want hard, go play EQ, attempt to raid that, hell, attempt to get a group to grind, its hard. This game is NOT hard, this game is as casual as you want it too be. I had an ilevel of 329 last night before i went into my first heroic as a shaman healer, and hey look, it was HoO didnt wipe or anything. Yeah some of them are more threat related, but is it THAT hard to press a button to CC a mob? ...
Im happy that people are getting pissed off about it, and that Blizzard is showing some balls for their game, by making people actually have to work for their armor. Im happy that the people who are putting time and actual effort are actually able to have something to show by it, i love it. And i hope Blizzard doesn't back down on their forward approach.
Honestly, what has the world of MMORPG players become? ..
PS - All mammals have nipples.
Get over it already.
I'm so tired of people painting EQ like it was the most difficult MMORPG of all time. It wasn't hard at all. There's nothing hard about standing next to a wall all day while waiting on someone to bring you one monster at a time for five hours. EQ was just a timesink.
Okay, The raiding in there actually required some sort of knowledge of your class, which is what i believe Blizzard is attempting to do with this new difficulty with the instances. They are making people learn their classes, learn what CD's to blow when, and when to spam heals, or when to regen some mana, they want people to know their classes more then everyone not knowing what they need to do and still getting rewarded for it. Im neither a Fanboy for EQ nor WoW cause i played both of them and do enjoy it, what i am a Fanboy of though, is a challenging game with some sort of substance other then oh yay, lets play for an hour, get 4 heroics done, and have all the awesome gear in the game without knowing anything about my class.
Raiding in EQ was hard, especially on a pvp server with most raids being open instanced, guilds would zerg, and you would need to know what to do when. it made it challenging, and fun.
PS - All mammals have nipples.
Get over it already.
That's just it though. People don't expect World of Warcraft to be hard, and its fanbase enjoys the ease in which they can obtain gear and the low barrier to entry in the raid scene. It's a casual game, and not everyone derives fun out of back breaking challenge. WoTLK was made for those people, yet Cataclysm appears to try to appease both groups by making leveling stupidly easy and the endgame far more difficult, but I fail to see how that appeals to anyone. Hardcores will scoff at how easy leveling is and probably quit while casuals will quit because gearing up for raiding has become such a painful experience.
Blizzard has to know who their audience is, and at this point, it isn't exactly filled with people who I think are all that thrilled about the recent changes. This is why I have to say that I'm not sure I understand the point behind making Cataclysm so much more difficult than WoTLK. Feels like the reverse of all the changes seen over the years in EQ2.
Blizzard has had Blue's state that they are keeping the changes, cause you know what's gonna happen? one or two months down the road, everyone, and EVERYONE will be able to do heroics with ease.
The expansion hasnt even been out for one month, people need to relax, and just enjoy the ride.
PS - All mammals have nipples.
Get over it already.
Blizzard has the complete industry by the balls.
One fart of Mike Morhaime is worth more than 200.000 man hours/programming work of the competition.
And you know what?
I love every QQ of it.
Legendary. Enjoy it while it lasts.
WotLK changed a lot of things about WoW and Cata is just fixing those issues. In BC people had the option of running casual friendly dungeons and if they wanted something a little more challenging they could run heroics. In WotLK they removed the challenge from 5 mans so you either ran super easy normal 5 mans or easy heroics...not much of an option.
Now with Cataclysm, we have options again. You can run fairly easy normal 5 mans or choose the slightly more challenging heroics. Having multiple options is a wonderful thing and part of the reason WoW has grown to the size it is.
Well, that explains why I always end up feeling like Blizzard is trying to take a dump on me
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
This is so sad. Im so glad I dont play anymore.
People dont expect wow to be hard? Seriously? Ok maybe you kids who never played a mmo before, but most people who played through Vanilla and even BC miss those days. Sure wow was not "hard" back then, but hard enough that you actually felt like you achived something. WOW should never have changed to a casual game. It became casual because blizz (who is smart) changed it to casual because they knew then could generate more money.
It should take the avergae person 8-12 months to be able to Raid. After hitting top level it should still take months to build up the gear and experience to be able to Raid. Wotlk brough in the whole thing of hitting top level and raiding and doing heroics the same day. So sad and so happy I left.
I dont care how hard it is now, like said before enough people will QQ and blizz will change it back. I wish blizz could make two games. One for the kids and one for the mature adults who actually dont mind working for something. You kids are going to have an I opener when you get older and a company doesent hand you a managers position right away and to think you actually will have to work for something in your life to accomplish a goal and feel good about it.
Wanting a game to take 12 months to get to raiding doesn't make someone mature and anyone who doesn't want to play that way some sort of child. Comments like these seem a little childish to be honest.
I agree with the OP except on one point. While Tol Barad does mix PVE/PVP I didn't see if you had mentioned if you were on a PVP or PVE server. Tol Barad may just be a bit more fun if you were on a PVP server with a group of friends. Quest "Open World" pvp is exactly what some players were looking for. It is what it is.
"Alt" aclysm is exactly that. This expansion is made mostly for the person who enjoys level a million alts 1-60. While thats ok and I am probably one of those people I still enjoy doing end game stuff and achievements on one of my favorite characters. I am casual (Work a lot). I wouldn't consider myself terrible but I haven't been booted out of any group for bad DPS or messing something up. WHAT I have seen though is the worst players possible struggling, losing patience, mean spirited, and downright vitriol brought into this game. I am so shocked Blizzard would let this happen.
I cannot blame Blizzard completely because they really did listen to players this time in what they wanted for an expansion. I was in Beta since day 1 and you know what those forums were screaming. "MAKE IT HARDER, MAKE IT CHALLENGING" etc etc. They got their wish.
To redeem themselves I really agree with the OP. They need to pick who they are catering too and go with it. I have been in every single expansion and I can certainly tell you at level 85, this is one of the most un-necessarily difficult expansions yet.
No because anyone who wants something NOW is a kid. Only a mature adult knows that you must work at something to achieve something. If your an adult and want to play a game that you can finish in a few days then play a console game. MMO's were designed to be played over a long period of time. Anyone who started with MUD's or even BBS games like BRE understands this.
Raiding should be for people that have experience. Understanding your class and others. Understanding the mechanics of the game. Understanding how to work with a large group of people. Unfortunetly a large population of wows community does not understand any of those things.
So what is the cutoff line between kid and mature adult? Is is 5 months to max leve, 7? 12? How long does someone have to wait in order to get "something"? A few days, a week, 2053 hours?
My point is that you are expressing what YOU desire in an mmo. Calling anyone who may not agree with your personal idea of an mmo a child or something else to belittle them isn't very mature and quite frankly very closed minded.
There is no merriam-webster definition of what an mmo has to be or how long it has to take. Regardless of what mudds you played or how loudly you tell the new mmo-players to keep off your grass.
I agree its cool to be casual but it doesn't make sense to raid if you want to be casual. So enjoy the game's content and if you want to see endgame content prepare to learn your class.
If you don't raid, there is no reason to play this game.
People wanted Wow to be back to vanilla and blizzard did so, it is hard and it is challenging, now that you have what you wanted to whine about it. It is the best expenson for Wow come to date.
To all the PVEers who said the games to be splitten in 2 part pvp and pve ? you guys were ganking us when we were questing now that we can pve in your pvp zone, you whine... Fair deal I say just WHINE MORE. I like it that way!
If the game is too hard for you, just quit.
I can't for the life of me understand why people are surprised that they aren't overgeared enough to PUG heroics and raids/
Is this your first expansion release? Honestly, it's been like this each and every time. You weren't pugging Heroic Occulus, Old Kingdom etc until months after release and several instance nerfs (as well as more people getting more epics). TBC you're telling me you got to 70 and start pugging Karazhan? Yeahhhh right buddy. Kara wasn't pugged for a LONG time. You got to 70 and started doing Heroic Shadow Labs or Arcatraz? Hellll no. Maybe if you joined in months after release, but definitely not without a good guild group were you taking down most of the heroics in either expansion.
I don't play WoW, but I would openly welcome a challenge. If you can get the heroics done with no wipes with a PUG clad in pure blues then people complain about it being too easy.
It's always been Blizzard's style to release content at a fairly difficult level. Let the super elite nerds tackle that then start nerfing it down to let more and more people have access to it. Nothing new year.
It sounds more like you're talking to a subordinate at a corporation than some people about a video game. You must work something to achieve something? Whatever happened to it being a video game? Aren't they supposed to be fun and laughter, not blood sweat and tears?
Sure taking that long to get things done was cool back then, but I don't know about you, as a young adult I no longer have the time to commit to something like that.
Raiding should be for everyone. This whole elitist approach to it is so played out. The people that have experience and this and that are capable of doing more of the raids faster and they are able to tackle hardmodes and tribute runs. Seems about right to me.
This whole misconception that everyone needs to be as good as me to be in my endgame is quite silly and self centered. I played with some awful people sometimes in WoW, but they were cool people so ultimately it didn't really matter that they were slower or dropped the ball from time to time.
There were plenty of hardcore elite guilds where people had experience and a complete understanding with this and that. From my experience, those guilds were more often than not the most immature and childish guilds you could possibly imagine. All you have is a bunch of teens with some misplaced god complex because they read on elitistjerks.com how to setup their character properly.
Maybe for you..but there are other reasons to play than to gear grind. Some poeple PVP, some RP, and there are some people that are toon freaks who like to reroll. Don't be so shallow. If you believe that raiding is the only thing left at the end of an MMO than good for you. Everyone is different.
agreed, it never ceases to amaze me how people think they are experts in the gaming industry and know what all the other millions of gamers want.
So both of you have a point but here is where the problem lies. With WOW moving away from the large 25-40 man groups, the 10 man groups don't have the room to *carry* people like they used to. Granted I enjoy just raiding and seeing new content but some people judge their enjoyment on how much they can accomphlish in a short time they have to play. When you say that "Raiding should be for everyone" thats like saying everyone should be a doctor and get all the money like a doctor without doing the work or knowing your profession. Its just not true.
I stopped playing WOW when I realized I didn't have the time to be hardcore and raid. Its not the games fault or Blizz's. Lets be honest, raiding takes structure, gear, and teamwork. Casual is fun but if you want to raid you should know by now that you have to do some work because nothing worth having should come easy.
I have to agree 100% with you on this thread, usually I would be in someone's face finding fault with their post defending WOW, but I tell you, this game is done "stick a fork in it".
I just cancelled my account along with my son and his 4 friends, WOW has had it's day, it is just monotone routine now.
Too hard - too easy...
So with 50% telling one thing or the other (and the other 50% just trolling the hate like they always do), tell me what is it ?
I will tell you: everyone speaks about the game, that's all that matters ain't it?
If you make a video game ... always go after the hardcore scores, the others will follow in the easier modes.
It has always been like that. >from pac man to SC2.
I don't see drops in % played on Xfire compared to other MMO's, and that's the first time I see this trend in 5 years.
All new MMO's/expansions lost 50% or more in the first month (even Wotlk). I don't see this with Cata.
Come on man you didn't just seriously try to compare being a raider to being a doctor. I only hope for your sake that you can see the vast difference between the two. If not, maybe you're taking your raiding a little too seriously.
We're talking about a video game.