Originally posted by Myrdynnyou guys bitch about Imperial getting a free horseyou guys bitch when they add a horse you can buy rather then spending 17k as an option for standard edition purchasers, cheaper than upgrading to the Imperialyou guys bitch that you dont have to buy it, but its not fairyou guys just like to bitch. Dont play the game, dont buy the horse, dont do anythingDO QUIT THE BITCHING ABOUT EVERYTHING
The solution to people bitching about the Imperial horse was, "Heres a cheaper horse you can buy?"
The solution would have been to make the in game horse cheaper. Not sell another horse for real money. lol
I hope they do, I am perfectly fine with a sub+convenience items (not p2w), if I feel that I dont have the patience to grind out 42000 gold, I have no problem spending 10$ to save me time
How would buying a faster horse be not P2W? Specifically the fastest horse in the game.
Originally posted by Myrdynnyou guys bitch about Imperial getting a free horseyou guys bitch when they add a horse you can buy rather then spending 17k as an option for standard edition purchasers, cheaper than upgrading to the Imperialyou guys bitch that you dont have to buy it, but its not fairyou guys just like to bitch. Dont play the game, dont buy the horse, dont do anythingDO QUIT THE BITCHING ABOUT EVERYTHING
The solution to people bitching about the Imperial horse was, "Heres a cheaper horse you can buy?"
The solution would have been to make the in game horse cheaper. Not sell another horse for real money. lol
No, that is just the solution you would prefer.
So they did the right thing by offering yet another horse for real money in a Cash Shop they said would not be in in the first place?
Originally posted by Kenichi This is really disappointing. I just can't support any form of cash shop that is with a subscription game. Looks like I'll be cancelling.
Then you will never be playing another MMORPG again - as all of them will have cash shops.
Pure subscription model is dead.
MMORPGs are a business - putting in a cap of only $15 per month is financial suicide, when you can give player options to spend as much as they want in the cash shop.
Sub model = limited profit per player
Cash shop = no hard ceiling profit per player
As a business you would have to be an idiot to pick a sub only model.
I believe you have misunderstood. I play GW2 which is a cash shop and I have no problems with that. I just have a problem when a game has both. I can't support double dipping.
This is a sub based game and they posted many times there would be no cash shop.
Buying an 'account upgrade' Normal to Imperial at the web site... that's ok
But selling any item by itself that can be used in game for an advantage over non paying members IS a cash shop
And now they are selling horses for cash before the game has even started. Sounds like they always planned a cash shop right from the start and its just the start of the flood gates.
Sounds like they will have exp potions etc within a few months.
I feel like a fool now buying into their lies.
The game should be paid by subs OR cash shops, not both, that is just a slap in the face.
I hope they do, I am perfectly fine with a sub+convenience items (not p2w), if I feel that I dont have the patience to grind out 42000 gold, I have no problem spending 10$ to save me time
How would buying a faster horse be not P2W? Specifically the fastest horse in the game.
does it make you better at the game? Is it something you can only get from the shop?
Hahah already, It's a starter horse for now but give them time.
Sub games shouldn't have cash shops period, I'm of the opinion of if they want to add a cash shop just go full on f2p after milking the game with subs.
Alternately if they want a hybrid model make it so subs get anything in the cash shop free. This baloney of subs having to spend more money in the cash shop is BS.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Originally posted by Myrdynnyou guys bitch about Imperial getting a free horseyou guys bitch when they add a horse you can buy rather then spending 17k as an option for standard edition purchasers, cheaper than upgrading to the Imperialyou guys bitch that you dont have to buy it, but its not fairyou guys just like to bitch. Dont play the game, dont buy the horse, dont do anythingDO QUIT THE BITCHING ABOUT EVERYTHING
The solution to people bitching about the Imperial horse was, "Heres a cheaper horse you can buy?"The solution would have been to make the in game horse cheaper. Not sell another horse for real money. lol
No, that is just the solution you would prefer.
So they did the right thing by offering yet another horse for real money in a Cash Shop they said would not be in in the first place?
What would be a good solution then?
The fallacy here is assuming there is one. Not everyone feels the same way about subs and cash shops. So there is no such thing as a perfect solution. There is only what solution will be the most profitable for Zenimax.
Originally posted by Octagon7711 All this over a horse. Wait till the xp potions come out.
I won't be run down in PvP by someone who opened their wallet and drank an EXP Potion. I will be run down by someone who bought a horse though. At least until I'm high enough level to afford a good horse.
IMHO, you don't get to charge $60, plus a $15 a month fee and then have a cash shop that sells mechanical, gameplay advantages... no matter how small. I would never buy a game that does that.
This company is playing a very dangerous game trying the subscription model in 2014. They don't need to up the ante by also giving mechanical edges to people who buy extra stuff.
tried and true car analogy
you want floormats? you want a limited edition? you want satellite radio? Those are all extras.
you want a stock car you pay less, it still gets you from point A to point B.
Hahah already, It's a starter horse for now but give them time.
Sub games shouldn't have cash shop period, I'm of the opinion of if they want to add a cash shop just go full on f2p after milking the game with subs.
Alternately if they want a hybrid model make it so subs get anything in the cash shop free. This baloney of subs having to spend more money in the cash shop is BS.
Originally posted by KenichiThis is really disappointing. I just can't support any form of cash shop that is with a subscription game. Looks like I'll be cancelling.
Then you will never be playing another MMORPG again - as all of them will have cash shops.Pure subscription model is dead.MMORPGs are a business - putting in a cap of only $15 per month is financial suicide, when you can give player options to spend as much as they want in the cash shop.Sub model = limited profit per playerCash shop = no hard ceiling profit per playerAs a business you would have to be an idiot to pick a sub only model.
I believe you have misunderstood. I play GW2 which is a cash shop and I have no problems with that. I just have a problem when a game has both. I can't support double dipping.
One of the only rational posts against it on this thread.. It's simple.. it's not wrong.. it's not right. The only issue is whether you support it or not.
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty Originally posted by Asm0deusHahah already, It's a starter horse for now but give them time.Sub games shouldn't have cash shop period, I'm of the opinion of if they want to add a cash shop just go full on f2p after milking the game with subs. Alternately if they want a hybrid model make it so subs get anything in the cash shop free. This baloney of subs having to spend more money in the cash shop is BS.
Ha ha... that's the very definition of p2w..
Depends on what is in the cash shop, A hybrid model like this gives the client the choice of how to p2p, sub with free use of cash shop items as long as your a sub or f2p and get nickle and dimed but just for what you actually want to use.
It's up to you which one you find more advantages moneywise or fits your needs.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Originally posted by Knotwood One question.... what the price of this horse. It might be worth it to cancel the pre order CE edition now and get a standard.
I doubt it would be $20 or $5, so $10? But I wouldn't be shocked if it was $20.
It would be shocking if it was $20, because $20 is what it costs to get a horse, a race, and the ability to convert any armor to Imperial. More than ten would be surprising.
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
You're still wasting money.
If you have access to the white imperial horse why not just buy 2 imperial horses?
cash shop arguments don't phase me. i don't care if they add a full blown Pay-To-Win cash shop. If they do we'll all just play something else, they'll go under, and this old world will still be spinning.
It's not up to you to decide when someone else is wasting money. It's their money to spend as they see fit, and if they enjoy what they get for it, it wasn't a waste. And please, stop with the myth of the "Pay-To-Win" cash shop, no major game has ever had one.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Octagon7711 All this over a horse. Wait till the xp potions come out.
I won't be run down in PvP by someone who opened their wallet and drank an EXP Potion. I will be run down by someone who bought a horse though. At least until I'm high enough level to afford a good horse.
IMHO, you don't get to charge $60, plus a $15 a month fee and then have a cash shop that sells mechanical, gameplay advantages... no matter how small. I would never buy a game that does that.
This company is playing a very dangerous game trying the subscription model in 2014. They don't need to up the ante by also giving mechanical edges to people who buy extra stuff.
tried and true car analogy
you want floormats? you want a limited edition? you want satellite radio? Those are all extras.
you want a stock car you pay less, it still gets you from point A to point B.
So I can buy a Hyundai (TESO) or a Ford (Any other Pay-to-Play, Subscription-based MMO). Hyundai decides to charge me 20% more for the limited edition, satellite radio w/floormates.
Ford says: "Oh that all comes standard... do other car companies actually charge you extra for that shit?"
Guess which car I'm buying?
The point is: no other game is currently subscription-based, pay-to-play AND expects you to buy extras that actually have a mechanical impact on the game. Sorry, it's a deal breaker - keep your Hyundai.
As shocking as Lindsay Lohan admitting she has slept with a lot of other celebrities.
LOL, indeed. Given the ingame price of horses this was really a no brainer.
I am not entirely sure monthly fee PLUS cash shop sits well with me. >.<
I saw it no other way. Nearly every single sub mmo has a cash store with vanity items or shortcuts to things you can get in game.
My guess is we will see nothing in the cash shop that impacts crafting economy but expect things like costumes and "special mount of the month" sales much like Swtor, TSW and Lotro does (minus their f2p options). Basically fluff crap but some people get off on these so I can't see why ZOS wouldn't monetize such options. I wonder if they are going the xp potions route as well.
ZOS laid out their cash shop philosophy so as long as they do not break their promise of "no shortcuts" I am ok with it. I have no idea how a horse offered for sale bothers anyone. Don't buy it if you do not want it. It take mere hours of game play at higher levels to earn the gold for a horse. Everyone has to pay for the White Stallion or even the cash shop one so it isn't like it's not fair for everyone.
Look at it this way: If ZOS doesn't maximize income for this game it WILL go f2p eventually and that will destroy this game's community and reshapes the development of the game. This game hinges completely on community with it's guild and economy system. If converted to f2p the very first thing they will monetize is the crafting system and accessibility to end game features. The cash shop will start offering shortcuts to crafting through purchasing materials. Every single sub game that converted to f2p had it's community shattered.
I see no reason why I will need to buy anything in the cash shop as long as this game is completely sub based for accessibility.
And before you yell "wow did it too!", let me say 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Just wanted to point out, this isn't an issue of right and wrong. It's an issue about video games.
Would it be better if I worded it for you this way Mr. Knit Picky?
2 ethically questionable business practice decisions from video game companies does not equal an ethically sound/moral business practice decision from a video game company.
Originally posted by PpiperI can't believe the melodrama here over something so benign. Really?
well.. it IS mmorpg.com
Where getting lied to by Devs is common place.I should know better by now.
Does it really matter? either play or don't play. As far as lies go... everyone does it... so... who's the hypocritical one?
It matters. Maybe not to you, but it matters to me. I Paid for a game, under the illusion it was a sub game with no cash shop. Now they have a cash shop.
A couple of guys buy a horse and the horse breeder will literally drown in gold piles lol. You need a truck to get that amount of gold moved from one place to another if you are planning on buyin more than one horse it would be wise to consider building a railroad to the stables in order to move all that gold to the seller by a train >_>
Comments
No, that is just the solution you would prefer.
How would buying a faster horse be not P2W? Specifically the fastest horse in the game.
So they did the right thing by offering yet another horse for real money in a Cash Shop they said would not be in in the first place?
What would be a good solution then?
I believe you have misunderstood. I play GW2 which is a cash shop and I have no problems with that. I just have a problem when a game has both. I can't support double dipping.
This is a sub based game and they posted many times there would be no cash shop.
Buying an 'account upgrade' Normal to Imperial at the web site... that's ok
But selling any item by itself that can be used in game for an advantage over non paying members IS a cash shop
And now they are selling horses for cash before the game has even started. Sounds like they always planned a cash shop right from the start and its just the start of the flood gates.
Sounds like they will have exp potions etc within a few months.
I feel like a fool now buying into their lies.
The game should be paid by subs OR cash shops, not both, that is just a slap in the face.
does it make you better at the game? Is it something you can only get from the shop?
Hahah already, It's a starter horse for now but give them time.
Sub games shouldn't have cash shops period, I'm of the opinion of if they want to add a cash shop just go full on f2p after milking the game with subs.
Alternately if they want a hybrid model make it so subs get anything in the cash shop free. This baloney of subs having to spend more money in the cash shop is BS.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
The fallacy here is assuming there is one. Not everyone feels the same way about subs and cash shops. So there is no such thing as a perfect solution. There is only what solution will be the most profitable for Zenimax.
tried and true car analogy
you want floormats? you want a limited edition? you want satellite radio? Those are all extras.
you want a stock car you pay less, it still gets you from point A to point B.
Ha ha... that's the very definition of p2w..
One of the only rational posts against it on this thread.. It's simple.. it's not wrong.. it's not right. The only issue is whether you support it or not.
well.. it IS mmorpg.com
Ha ha... that's the very definition of p2w..
Depends on what is in the cash shop, A hybrid model like this gives the client the choice of how to p2p, sub with free use of cash shop items as long as your a sub or f2p and get nickle and dimed but just for what you actually want to use.
It's up to you which one you find more advantages moneywise or fits your needs.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
It's not up to you to decide when someone else is wasting money. It's their money to spend as they see fit, and if they enjoy what they get for it, it wasn't a waste. And please, stop with the myth of the "Pay-To-Win" cash shop, no major game has ever had one.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
So I can buy a Hyundai (TESO) or a Ford (Any other Pay-to-Play, Subscription-based MMO). Hyundai decides to charge me 20% more for the limited edition, satellite radio w/floormates.
Ford says: "Oh that all comes standard... do other car companies actually charge you extra for that shit?"
Guess which car I'm buying?
The point is: no other game is currently subscription-based, pay-to-play AND expects you to buy extras that actually have a mechanical impact on the game. Sorry, it's a deal breaker - keep your Hyundai.
Where getting lied to by Devs is common place.I should know better by now.
I saw it no other way. Nearly every single sub mmo has a cash store with vanity items or shortcuts to things you can get in game.
My guess is we will see nothing in the cash shop that impacts crafting economy but expect things like costumes and "special mount of the month" sales much like Swtor, TSW and Lotro does (minus their f2p options). Basically fluff crap but some people get off on these so I can't see why ZOS wouldn't monetize such options. I wonder if they are going the xp potions route as well.
ZOS laid out their cash shop philosophy so as long as they do not break their promise of "no shortcuts" I am ok with it. I have no idea how a horse offered for sale bothers anyone. Don't buy it if you do not want it. It take mere hours of game play at higher levels to earn the gold for a horse. Everyone has to pay for the White Stallion or even the cash shop one so it isn't like it's not fair for everyone.
Look at it this way: If ZOS doesn't maximize income for this game it WILL go f2p eventually and that will destroy this game's community and reshapes the development of the game. This game hinges completely on community with it's guild and economy system. If converted to f2p the very first thing they will monetize is the crafting system and accessibility to end game features. The cash shop will start offering shortcuts to crafting through purchasing materials. Every single sub game that converted to f2p had it's community shattered.
I see no reason why I will need to buy anything in the cash shop as long as this game is completely sub based for accessibility.
You stay sassy!
That's a VERY MISUNDERSTOOD issue!
As most of all of us, i've bought the Imperial Ed. and i didnt saw that cash "upgrade", as many i'm feelling unpocket.
I don't think you know what ethics are.
It matters. Maybe not to you, but it matters to me. I Paid for a game, under the illusion it was a sub game with no cash shop. Now they have a cash shop.
A couple of guys buy a horse and the horse breeder will literally drown in gold piles lol. You need a truck to get that amount of gold moved from one place to another
if you are planning on buyin more than one horse it would be wise to consider building a railroad to the stables in order to move all that gold to the seller by a train >_>