So, who leads or determines this independent forensic accountant or independent executive producer? Do all the backers put it to a vote? Does Derek Smart get to choose?
Probably CIG and Derek could come up with a deal that would work well for the people (not happening, obviously)
Why should Derek have a hand in any deal? What makes him special? In fact, I think it'd be in the best interest of RSI/CIG to not even entertain the idea of Derek Smart being involved in anything they do. For the sake of the project and delivering the best possible product.
If CIG answered Derek in some way, they would not answer him, but ackowleding and offering to backers something. Probably they would talk to Derek too, behind the doors. As I said. Not happening.
What if the rest of the backers don't want this to happen at all? Should it occur due to the a minority of backers and their votes?
The rest of the backers would mind that CIG shown something if CIG decided to show? That does not make sense. Also, the minority of the community decided things that lead to CIG break their deal in the first place. Manipulated by the Roberts salesman, but, was just a minority who backed up him.
You're making absolutely no sense here. Why should something happen based upon a minority of backers? What if there were a vote where 80% of the backers said no, but 20% said yes to Derek Smart's demands? Do we proceed then? I mean, Derek Smart wants to make this into a 'backer democracy', but what if the majority of backers don't agree at all?
Less than 10% of backers of CIG decided they breaking their own deal with all backers. That's a fact. So, maybe you are with us now and understand how illegal that was, considering that they made individual deals and not a group deal? See?
Next, who should gain access to this information? Derek Smart? The world? All the backers?
CIG. If they are honest. The world and backers if they aren't.
'Honesty' is a matter of interpretation. And, the only way Derek Smart would ever be satisfied is every single inch of the report is available to him to evaluate so he can give his own 'opinion'.
If they show their stuff and nothing is wrong, Derek's opinion does not matter. I doubt that he would persist saying that things are wrong. He would accomplish with what he and many backers asked for. To know what exactly is happening from an independent source, not a source that could be just telling you things to you buy more ships or to sell more ships, which is exactly what appears to be. Or, if they are running into problems, is fair that the "investors" (quotes in purpose) know that instead putting more money at risk of losses.
How do you mitigate or prevent competing developers with competing products (like Derek Smart) from using this information to gain an unfair advantage over CIG and Star Citizen?
You have to understand something here. The person that would be hired probalby would just say for everyone else if the things is fine or bad. Wouldn't show everything for the public. That's not how this works.
You know damn well Derek Smart wouldn't be satisfied with that. He'll push for his own 'independent' whatever. Anything short and he'll make another list of demands until he gets exactly what he wants under his own terms.
Again, that would be irrelevant. The situation would be set by CIG and its backers (not Derek Smart).
Finally, where in any of the agreements between RSI/CIG and those who gifted that those who gifted could do these things?
Read the TOS. They promised to show how they spent the money in case of failing to deliver in a certain time. Then, they changed and expanded this time, which just raised more suspicions and made the clause deceptive, without meaning and invalidating their TOS. Why they would do that? You would need a serious reason to risk yourself in such level.
Sounds like you're loosely interpreting their TOS to mean something to support your position, when the actual meaning was rather different.
??? Sounds like you not been objective again.
Basically, on what grounds or basis does Derek Smart have to call for such actions other than personal opinion?
Not just personal opinion. It's the fact that they failed to deliver and were deep many times in deceptive marketing and contradictions. Without doubt, they broke some laws already, for the sake to hide things. They failed to deliver and in whatever court of law they will be demanded to show everything. Would be better for them not going to this path. Period.
Give specific examples of the deceptive marketing or contradictions. Cite your sources and provide links. What laws were broken? It's easy to assert things, but when your position is based upon conjecture it'll quickly fall apart once you have to actually put work into it and realize you're wrong.
Fair Act of USA. I am going to put an attorney of FTC that summarizes:
"
The Federal Trade Commission makes and enforces rules to protect consumers from unfair or deceptive business practices, and its consumer protection principles apply to crowdfunding sites in the same way they apply to things like catalogs, direct mail and TV commercials, according to Helen Wong, an attorney with the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection. Sellers can’t make deceptive representations, and they have to fulfill promises they’ve made to consumers, for starters.
"
And CIG made a lot of deceptive representations. For some reason that I don't understand, all the time that I brought the specific deceptions that CIG made to this forum, the moderators come and delete the post. So, I am not losing my time on this again.
But I will be happy to show some of them, (its a big list), if a mod allowing me.
P.S.: Probably you are part of the group who flag such posts on sight -
Yes, those silly demands are mixed-in there for a good reason. They guarantee that his challenge will never be accepted, which means he will never have to deposit the $1M in escrow.
You read that wrongly, because he put the "up to 1M escrow" to help in an audit process in case they accepting OR to help to go to in a lawsuit, in case they denying the requests.
I doubt Derek Smart has 1 million at this point. LoD would look a bit better than it does.
Originally posted by Warley
This line of thinking tells me you're not familiar with the development cycle of a game.
^
Remember he's talking about a game in Early Access.
Is there any of Derek Smart's demands that you find unreasonable?
Most of them are which is a different issue than the points he has made as well of others before him that DID NOT have the clout he does.
I'm not here to discuss the obviously good points that were raised. EVERYONE can agree on the good points. I'm here discussing the unreasonable points and the unreasonable approach he's taken. If you're not discussing that in these threads then why are you in these threads?
Start a thread highlighting 'good points' and then make an argument for those points. Just prepare yourself to be proven wrong when actual backers post links and information showing that the 'good points' were addressed before.
Of course, I don't think anyone here with the pitchforks wants to actual debate 'good points' since there's a few obvious backers here who should have already put an end to the discussion on 'some of the good points'.
Reality is is that 99% of Derek Smart's walls of text were rants & opinion and downright smearing; with the other 1% being good points to anyone that heard it from him first without researching.
Example:
I still would ask why a spouse with ZERO job experience is holding a key position other than for a bloated paycheck and possible bonuses.
Well, she was the co-founder of a crowdfunding project that broke the Guinness Book of World Records. She's been with the project since the inception. Her position is VP of Marketing... well, if you understood marketing you'd understand her experience.
Just because we're not aware of other companies she was the VP of Marketing for doesn't mean she isn't qualified. Ever hear of homebrew talent/people rising up from lower ranks? You don't always have to hire outside talent when inside talent has displayed the ability to perform certain jobs.
Again, VP of Marketing. Being recognized a 'co-founder' of the project (meaning she was there from the beginning) what makes her unqualified. She must have had a hand in lot of the marketing decisions (that led to a successful crowdfunding campaign of $85) so... if that's the case, which it appears it is, why shouldn't she be VP of Marketing?
Your argument is because she's his wife... that's just ridiculous.
Once again it's the same ole same ole with you, along the lines of "you don't understand XYZ" in which case "XYZ" is marketing.
As I sit here in my house with a BA in Project Management and Marketing.
So, if you have a BA in project management and marketing you'd understand if you had a hand in a crowdfunding campaign that generated $85 million you were SUCCESSFUL at marketing.
DERP
I'm surprised that with your BA here you haven't caught onto this yet.
Chris Roberts was the marketing behind $85 million, not his wife.
So... respectfully
Was Chris Roberts the mastermind behind the marketing campaign? or was it someone else?
Point out where the VP of marketing is in the original KS video (aka Marketing). In your response to this post total up her entire facetime in the video and put it in yellow text for all to see.
Qualification for VP of Marketing depends on your face time in a video. Got it.
There you go again.
So, in the sink or swim moment of this games KS campaign the VP of Marketing has zero facetime in a 11:09 marketing video. It's so bad she doesn't even get a 15 second spot in the beginning to introduce her husband.
Or, maybe, the co-founders (one of which she was) figured it was best to keep Chris Roberts (a well known industry vet - especially in the Star Citizen genre) as the primary face/the focus? Are you seriously making this argument?
So Chris Roberts sold the game, which is what i said.
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Chris Roberts was the marketing behind $85 million, not his wife.
So... respectfully
Was Chris Roberts the mastermind behind the marketing campaign? or was it someone else?
Point out where the VP of marketing is in the original KS video (aka Marketing). In your response to this post total up her entire facetime in the video and put it in yellow text for all to see.
Does the person in charge of Marketing have to be in the video? Or can they work behind the scenes?
I've never seen the VP of marketing for Procter & Gamble in a Febreze commercial. Speaking of false advertising and not doing what you claim, I wonder why the FTC hasn't come down on them?
Proctor and Gamble is a publicly traded company (PG on the NYSE). You will find the marketing department briefing shareholders and closing business deals (aka KS Backers).
How about a simple answer for a simple question
Answer was simple and true, just isn't the answer you wanted.
Excuse my daftness...
Please explain it to me
Not sure what your asking, Marketing and Advertising are not the same.
Was Chris Roberts the mastermind behind the marketing campaign? or was it someone else?
People can't consider their marketing successful yet, because marketing is not just about selling... you have to sell but without negative consequences for your future.
Unless your objective is indeed, just money, not keeping a company or making a starter company to keep going and survive with reputation in the long term, in one the most difficults and competitive industries of the world.
You know... successful companies of the world, in general, are those who say "no" to the customer when they know that the customer have more chances to be disappointed than the contrary.
Client focus. The success of the client is your success and what will make him to buy again and give to you, access to his network.
Mainly if you are dealing with a business that is focused in a niche, hardcore, and only will have income in the future with retention.
Their marketing is focusing to sell stuff for people that does not need such effort to buy, while, in the other hand, close more doors than open them... make more and more people disgusted and with a bad perception about the company and the project. And perception is everything in this industry. It's what will lead to people review better or worst the game. Is what will lead people to forgive or to accuse more for the minor bug, or guess what, the bigger one, or the lack of features going well, better implemented or not even ready.
So, yes, she is not capable and short-sighted, as Roberts and Ben. People who disagree will see in time... maybe... if they ever look to this objectively and thinking in the long term, in a reasonable way, to figure out that the root cause of all the shit that you see going on with this project and will see leading to his absolute fall, is their marketing.
Their marketing approach is a business suicide.
Words of wisdom indeed..
However, there is one small problem with this approach of yours. You see, the people whom opinion actually matters beg to differ with you. Yes, i am referring to the backers, the vast majority of them, the ones who DID give their money to Roberts in order to make SC a reality. The ones with the IMMEDIATE interest in this project because, again, THEY PAID for it, they have ACCESS to Arena Commander and will have ACCESS to Star Marine in a few weeks. These people do not share your concerns and tribulations.
You disagree? Take to the games forums where you can directly interact with them.
Star Citizen only exists because Chris Roberts decided to make it.
Without him driving the process, there would have been no Kickstarter and no game.
In those early video's, nobody else was important or relevant. Who do you see in that video ? Chris Roberts, and only Chris Roberts, front and center.
It's HIS reputation that sealed the deal. That's fairly obvious when you consider the response that those video's elicited.
That's not true. The gameplay videos were very important and relevant. And probably lead more people to spend a lot more that they would if it was just Chris Roberts saying something.
Many forum threads of the earlier time are able to show you that. You are from the earlier times, just like me. So, I guess that its just you pretending again, or if not, sorry, but you have a short memory.
Most of people that I know who pledged weren't in by Chris Roberts, but were attracted by the gameplay. Including the people that I did not know, but watched online the reactions.
His rep helped, no doubt, but was not just that. The most impacting thing was that video and gameplay. Many people who backed earlier asked "ok, who is this guy? and someone told some "pretty" history, and then they pledged and jumped in the bandwagon... attracted by the idea and the "gameplay" shown).
And that was used for a long time (almost 2 years) to make people believe that the development was on track for a full release 2014/earlier 2015.
"Oh, you are not seen the things that are in background"
"Oh, remember that they show an advanced gameplay and worked for an year before"
"Oh, remember that they are a capalbe team and hired a lot of people and are doing things in paralel"
And the cycle repeats today, while more ships are sold.
Star Citizen only exists because Chris Roberts decided to make it.
Without him driving the process, there would have been no Kickstarter and no game.
In those early video's, nobody else was important or relevant. Who do you see in that video ? Chris Roberts, and only Chris Roberts, front and center.
It's HIS reputation that sealed the deal. That's fairly obvious when you consider the response that those video's elicited.
It's clear at this point that these guys are trolls (or associated with Derek Smart in some way). There's no way anyone that's reasonable could still honestly be posting what they are. It's clearly obvious with the fact that they think a VP of Marketing position requires video face time, according to them. Or, the fact that they still think that any of Derek Smart's 'demands' are reasonable.
Star Citizen only exists because Chris Roberts decided to make it.
Without him driving the process, there would have been no Kickstarter and no game.
In those early video's, nobody else was important or relevant. Who do you see in that video ? Chris Roberts, and only Chris Roberts, front and center.
It's HIS reputation that sealed the deal. That's fairly obvious when you consider the response that those video's elicited.
That's not true. The gameplay videos were very important and relevant. And probably lead more people to spend a lot more that they would if it was just Chris Roberts saying something.
Many forum threads of the earlier time are able to show you that. You are from the earlier times, just like me. So, I guess that its just you pretending again, or if not, sorry, but you have a short memory.
Most of people that I know who pledged weren't in by Chris Roberts, but were attracted by the gameplay. Including the people that I did not know, but watched online the reactions.
His rep helped, no doubt, but was not just that. The most impacting thing was that video and gameplay. Many people who backed earlier asked "ok, who is this guy? and someone told some "pretty" history, and then they pledged and jumped in the bandwagon... attracted by the idea and the "gameplay" shown).
And that was used for a long time (almost 2 years) to make people believe that the development was on track for a full release 2014/earlier 2015.
"Oh, you are not seen the things that are in background"
"Oh, remember that they show an advanced gameplay and worked for an year before"
"Oh, remember that they are a capalbe team and hired a lot of people and are doing things in paralel"
And the cycle repeats today, while more ships are sold.
"I'm Sandra(?) Roberts VP of CGI, we are proud to introduce this ground breaking new game we are working on called Star Citizen"
However, there is one small problem with this approach of yours. You see, the people whom opinion actually matters beg to differ with you. Yes, i am referring to the backers, the vast majority of them, the ones who DID give their money to Roberts in order to make SC a reality. The ones with the IMMEDIATE interest in this project because, again, THEY PAID for it, they have ACCESS to Arena Commander and will have ACCESS to Star Marine in a few weeks. These people do not share your concerns and tribulations.
You disagree? Take to the games forums where you can directly interact with them.
Until then keep spewing spite and misinformation.
I respectfully disagree.
The forum followers are a microscopic number of the CIG Backers. They are unable to represent the opinions of the backers in general, mainly because they are totally biased to forgive (and even between them, you see wars).
Was Chris Roberts the mastermind behind the marketing campaign? or was it someone else?
People can't consider their marketing successful yet, because marketing is not just about selling...
...
You know... successful companies of the world, in general, are those who say "no" to the customer when they know that the customer have more chances to be disappointed than the contrary.
...
Their marketing approach is a business suicide.
Words of wisdom indeed..
However, there is one small problem with this approach of yours. You see, the people whom opinion actually matters beg to differ with you. Yes, i am referring to the backers, the vast majority of them, the ones who DID give their money to Roberts in order to make SC a reality. The ones with the IMMEDIATE interest in this project because, again, THEY PAID for it, they have ACCESS to Arena Commander and will have ACCESS to Star Marine in a few weeks. These people do not share your concerns and tribulations.
You disagree? Take to the games forums where you can directly interact with them.
Until then keep spewing spite and misinformation.
He would love to "take to their forums" as you put it, but unfortunately he was banned a very long time ago...
He would love to "take to their forums" as you put it, but unfortunately he was banned a very long time ago...
True. But that was not fair. And this is not an opinion. This, I have proof. But I don't care. I never would go back to those forums anyway and when I was banned (permanently) I was not even commenting in the forums for that, and the comment that lead to my perma-banning was hilarious.
Anyway, those forums are not a good place to be when you are objective and is not willing to glorify game developers (which is weird, when you are actually one).
However, there is one small problem with this approach of yours. You see, the people whom opinion actually matters beg to differ with you. Yes, i am referring to the backers, the vast majority of them, the ones who DID give their money to Roberts in order to make SC a reality. The ones with the IMMEDIATE interest in this project because, again, THEY PAID for it, they have ACCESS to Arena Commander and will have ACCESS to Star Marine in a few weeks. These people do not share your concerns and tribulations.
You disagree? Take to the games forums where you can directly interact with them.
Until then keep spewing spite and misinformation.
I respectfully disagree.
The forum followers are a microscopic number of the CIG Backers. They are unable to represent the opinions of the backers in general, mainly because they are totally biased to forgive (and even between them, you see wars).
Both Star Citizen and Star Citizen Base forums have a sum total of over 150K registered users and both are extremely active with thousands of posts every day.
Star Citizen only exists because Chris Roberts decided to make it.
Without him driving the process, there would have been no Kickstarter and no game.
In those early video's, nobody else was important or relevant. Who do you see in that video ? Chris Roberts, and only Chris Roberts, front and center.
It's HIS reputation that sealed the deal. That's fairly obvious when you consider the response that those video's elicited.
It's clear at this point that these guys are trolls (or associated with Derek Smart in some way). There's no way anyone that's reasonable could still honestly be posting what they are. It's clearly obvious with the fact that they think a VP of Marketing position requires video face time, according to them. Or, the fact that they still think that any of Derek Smart's 'demands' are reasonable.
VP of Marketing needs someone with experience and insight of the market, and understand of what is more important for a company survive and grow in the long term.
Sandi Gardiner never worked in the game industry. She does not know the market for what she is targeting for. She knows about treat fans (of celebrities), but not the market itself. She is good and nice, only if you praise her like a god. Otherwise, she shows her true face.
She does not understand what a customer is. She has a lot of ego. And is capable of terrible things to protect his job.
She and Ben Lesnick. Both made a lot of mistakes, since together, they lead all the marketing/communication and customer interactions, and in general, sucked with customers to praise a few fans. Both without experience in matters of customers, sales, communication with customers, keeping companies. Zero. Nada. Just because are friends/family, they assumed lead positions. And their "success" again, is an illusion, a short-term success at a higher/fatal cost for the future.
When she sees some critic that is related to her job, even that you don't say her name, she take that as a "personal attack", just like a fanboy or a white knight of Roberts would.
Some developers also gave the same testimony, that clearly was directed to her.
She is unprepared and took decisions, together with other people that also doesn't understand marketing, or the reality of the market, that made quick/easy money, but with terrible consequences for their future. They are basically doomed exactly due the marketing (not even because the game development).
She probably have a negative impact in the team, which looks to a person without experience, just because is the wife of the boss, taking decisions that clearly a trainee would see as bad in the medium/long term, and do not listening, all based on ego and a lack of insight.. just looking to fans and seeing everyone as a fan (probably due her long time living in Hollywood and working as a model, instead a job related to customer).
Roberts also could be driven to feed "her plan" to make "her plan to work" to help her to keep in its position (more money to the familiy, right?). Or he is so short-sighted in these matters as her, which I don't doubt by some of comments that I saw coming from his mouth in some interviews that were seriously ridiculous.
In summary, she does not have what it takes and would have serious difficulties to find a job in anything beyond the "trainee" level in any company that was not owned by Chris Roberts or any of his friends.
However, there is one small problem with this approach of yours. You see, the people whom opinion actually matters beg to differ with you. Yes, i am referring to the backers, the vast majority of them, the ones who DID give their money to Roberts in order to make SC a reality. The ones with the IMMEDIATE interest in this project because, again, THEY PAID for it, they have ACCESS to Arena Commander and will have ACCESS to Star Marine in a few weeks. These people do not share your concerns and tribulations.
You disagree? Take to the games forums where you can directly interact with them.
Until then keep spewing spite and misinformation.
I respectfully disagree.
The forum followers are a microscopic number of the CIG Backers. They are unable to represent the opinions of the backers in general, mainly because they are totally biased to forgive (and even between them, you see wars).
Both Star Citizen and Star Citizen Base forums have a sum total of over 150K registered users and both are extremely active with thousands of posts every day.
A microscopic number indeed...
A lot of these users are not active at all. There is not a SINGLE pool even in the official comm-links that ever achieved anything near of this number.
And they are all voted by people which uses their forums with multiple accounts too. Actually they are even voted with people without any pledge.
The posts are posted in general by the same people again and again. All them are not even been honest about their opinions. Are there to make that as a PR tool, to defend CIG no matter what. I lost the count of times when I saw those backers saying "oh, but let's not discuss this here", or "lets talk about this in private", "we shouldn't talk about that here"...
Even that they disagree that what CIG do is wrong, they will vote that is right to praise the gods and for proud. They won't speak in what is in their minds, sometimes, with fear of the ban hammer too.
Yes... a microscopic number indeed. They definitely do not represent nothing. The forum are part of a show. Just that.
You never will find more than 1k or 2k "users" commenting there regularly. And that is in the popular moments only.
No doubt their marketing team put a lot of focus on this minority. They are the ones who in general and majority, buy more ships. They think that are doing the right thing. They are not looking into the doors that are closed due their actions and what all that will cause to the perception of all the rest in the medium/long term, and how their strategy is simply making this game a certain flop, even that they release something "average to good" (in the perception of fans, because for the rest, it will just sound terrible).
Star Citizen only exists because Chris Roberts decided to make it.
Without him driving the process, there would have been no Kickstarter and no game.
In those early video's, nobody else was important or relevant. Who do you see in that video ? Chris Roberts, and only Chris Roberts, front and center.
It's HIS reputation that sealed the deal. That's fairly obvious when you consider the response that those video's elicited.
It's clear at this point that these guys are trolls (or associated with Derek Smart in some way). There's no way anyone that's reasonable could still honestly be posting what they are. It's clearly obvious with the fact that they think a VP of Marketing position requires video face time, according to them. Or, the fact that they still think that any of Derek Smart's 'demands' are reasonable.
Yes, those silly demands are mixed-in there for a good reason. They guarantee that his challenge will never be accepted, which means he will never have to deposit the $1M in escrow.
You read that wrongly, because he put the "up to 1M escrow" to help in an audit process in case they accepting OR to help to go to in a lawsuit, in case they denying the requests.
I doubt Derek Smart has 1 million at this point. LoD would look a bit better than it does.
Originally posted by Warley
This line of thinking tells me you're not familiar with the development cycle of a game.
^
Remember he's talking about a game in Early Access.
Is there any of Derek Smart's demands that you find unreasonable?
1. He has asked that the executive team resign BEFORE any determination of wrongdoing. Why would any company do this?
2. He has asked that they fully refund $2M BEFORE checking to see if there is any issue, and without any consultation with the customers involved. Why would any company do this?
4. He has threatened to continue to harass, and to try to get others to do the same unless #1/2 are met, regardless of any fact finding. This is just a basic attack, that is not related to any actual facts, or fact finding.
I can answer the first one. In general a lot of companies give a person the option to resign before the outcome or beginning of an investigation. It allows them to find other work and list they left on their own as a reason. If they are eligible for a pension and could be fired as the result of an investigation, they may be in danger of losing it. Avoiding jail time if investigation yields something criminal was done. Even if they've done nothing wrong, bad evidence could get them blackballed. An investigation usually looks bad for the company, so some companies avoid them when possible.
You are correct that there are good reasons to allow executives to resign/retire etc before an investigation is complete or public. However, there are not any good reasons to FORCE the executive team (not just a single member) to leave before even looking into any allegations.
Roberts as a marketing guy is great. Roberts as a project manager? Not so good. There, his egomania works as a severe negative, especially when there's no one to watch over him.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
You are correct that there are good reasons to allow executives to resign/retire etc before an investigation is complete or public. However, there are not any good reasons to FORCE the executive team (not just a single member) to leave before even looking into any allegations.
Before who looking? You know... DS already looked. And is digging more by different means.
And he was who made the demand.
Only wouldn't be without reason if you did not know. But if you know...
However, there is one small problem with this approach of yours. You see, the people whom opinion actually matters beg to differ with you. Yes, i am referring to the backers, the vast majority of them, the ones who DID give their money to Roberts in order to make SC a reality. The ones with the IMMEDIATE interest in this project because, again, THEY PAID for it, they have ACCESS to Arena Commander and will have ACCESS to Star Marine in a few weeks. These people do not share your concerns and tribulations.
You disagree? Take to the games forums where you can directly interact with them.
Until then keep spewing spite and misinformation.
I respectfully disagree.
The forum followers are a microscopic number of the CIG Backers. They are unable to represent the opinions of the backers in general, mainly because they are totally biased to forgive (and even between them, you see wars).
Both Star Citizen and Star Citizen Base forums have a sum total of over 150K registered users and both are extremely active with thousands of posts every day.
A microscopic number indeed...
A lot of these users are not active at all. There is not a SINGLE pool even in the official comm-links that ever achieved anything near of this number.
And they are all voted by people which uses their forums with multiple accounts too. Actually they are even voted with people without any pledge.
The posts are posted in general by the same people again and again. All them are not even been honest about their opinions. Are there to make that as a PR tool, to defend CIG no matter what. I lost the times when I saw those backers saying "oh, but let's not discuss this here", or "lets talk about this in private"...
Even that they disagree that what CIG do is wrong, they will vote that is right to praise the gods and for proud. They won't speak in what is in their minds, sometimes, with fear of the ban hammer too.
Yes... a microscopic number indeed. They definitely do not represent nothing. The forum are part of a show. Just that.
You never will find more than 1k or 2k "users" commenting there regularly. And that is in the popular moments only.
No doubt their marketing team put a lot of focus on this minority. They are the ones who in general and majority, buy more ships. They think that are doing the right thing. They are not looking into the doors that are closed and what all that will cause to the perception of all the rest.
So, you are telling us that one of the most active game communities in the world at the time being only consists of some thousand backers, many of them with multiple accounts following CR's agenda and being used as a PR tools. Furthermore, backers aka people who spend their money on SC and are not happy with it's progress don't bother with the product's official forums.
Tens or even hundreds of thousands of backers aka people who have spend THEIR MONEY just stay silent.
You know what, you're way to biased for reasons i do not comprehend for someone to even try to fact with you. In order to advance your version you're prepared to go to any lengths, defy any logic and twist any info or numbers in order to fit your point of view.
However, there is one small problem with this approach of yours. You see, the people whom opinion actually matters beg to differ with you. Yes, i am referring to the backers, the vast majority of them, the ones who DID give their money to Roberts in order to make SC a reality. The ones with the IMMEDIATE interest in this project because, again, THEY PAID for it, they have ACCESS to Arena Commander and will have ACCESS to Star Marine in a few weeks. These people do not share your concerns and tribulations.
You disagree? Take to the games forums where you can directly interact with them.
Until then keep spewing spite and misinformation.
I respectfully disagree.
The forum followers are a microscopic number of the CIG Backers. They are unable to represent the opinions of the backers in general, mainly because they are totally biased to forgive (and even between them, you see wars).
Both Star Citizen and Star Citizen Base forums have a sum total of over 150K registered users and both are extremely active with thousands of posts every day.
A microscopic number indeed...
A lot of these users are not active at all. There is not a SINGLE pool even in the official comm-links that ever achieved anything near of this number.
And they are all voted by people which uses their forums with multiple accounts too. Actually they are even voted with people without any pledge.
The posts are posted in general by the same people again and again. All them are not even been honest about their opinions. Are there to make that as a PR tool, to defend CIG no matter what. I lost the count of times when I saw those backers saying "oh, but let's not discuss this here", or "lets talk about this in private", "we shouldn't talk about that here"...
Even that they disagree that what CIG do is wrong, they will vote that is right to praise the gods and for proud. They won't speak in what is in their minds, sometimes, with fear of the ban hammer too.
Yes... a microscopic number indeed. They definitely do not represent nothing. The forum are part of a show. Just that.
You never will find more than 1k or 2k "users" commenting there regularly. And that is in the popular moments only.
No doubt their marketing team put a lot of focus on this minority. They are the ones who in general and majority, buy more ships. They think that are doing the right thing. They are not looking into the doors that are closed due their actions and what all that will cause to the perception of all the rest in the medium/long term, and how their strategy is simply making this game a certain flop, even that they release something "average to good" (in the perception of fans, because for the rest, it will just sound terrible).
Using the numbers here from MMORPG.com (Members and Members Online) as an example only 8% are online as I post this. And of course this doesn't include active/nonactive members.
However, there is one small problem with this approach of yours. You see, the people whom opinion actually matters beg to differ with you. Yes, i am referring to the backers, the vast majority of them, the ones who DID give their money to Roberts in order to make SC a reality. The ones with the IMMEDIATE interest in this project because, again, THEY PAID for it, they have ACCESS to Arena Commander and will have ACCESS to Star Marine in a few weeks. These people do not share your concerns and tribulations.
You disagree? Take to the games forums where you can directly interact with them.
Until then keep spewing spite and misinformation.
I respectfully disagree.
The forum followers are a microscopic number of the CIG Backers. They are unable to represent the opinions of the backers in general, mainly because they are totally biased to forgive (and even between them, you see wars).
Both Star Citizen and Star Citizen Base forums have a sum total of over 150K registered users and both are extremely active with thousands of posts every day.
A microscopic number indeed...
A lot of these users are not active at all. There is not a SINGLE pool even in the official comm-links that ever achieved anything near of this number.
And they are all voted by people which uses their forums with multiple accounts too. Actually they are even voted with people without any pledge.
The posts are posted in general by the same people again and again. All them are not even been honest about their opinions. Are there to make that as a PR tool, to defend CIG no matter what. I lost the times when I saw those backers saying "oh, but let's not discuss this here", or "lets talk about this in private"...
Even that they disagree that what CIG do is wrong, they will vote that is right to praise the gods and for proud. They won't speak in what is in their minds, sometimes, with fear of the ban hammer too.
Yes... a microscopic number indeed. They definitely do not represent nothing. The forum are part of a show. Just that.
You never will find more than 1k or 2k "users" commenting there regularly. And that is in the popular moments only.
No doubt their marketing team put a lot of focus on this minority. They are the ones who in general and majority, buy more ships. They think that are doing the right thing. They are not looking into the doors that are closed and what all that will cause to the perception of all the rest.
So, you are telling us that one of the most active game communities in the world at the time being only consists of some thousand backers, many of them with multiple accounts following CR's agenda and being used as a PR tools. Furthermore, backers aka people who spend their money on SC and are not happy with it's progress don't bother with the product's official forums.
Tens or even hundreds of thousands of backers aka people who have spend THEIR MONEY just stay silent.
You know what, you're way to biased for reasons i do not comprehend for someone to even try to fact with you. In order to advance your version you're prepared to go to any lengths, defy any logic and twist any info or numbers in order to fit your point of view.
The forum followers are a microscopic number of the CIG Backers. They are unable to represent the opinions of the backers in general, mainly because they are totally biased to forgive (and even between them, you see wars).
Both Star Citizen and Star Citizen Base forums have a sum total of over 150K registered users and both are extremely active with thousands of posts every day.
A microscopic number indeed...
...
Yes... a microscopic number indeed. They definitely do not represent nothing. The forum are part of a show. Just that.
You never will find more than 1k or 2k "users" commenting there regularly. And that is in the popular moments only.
Using MMORPG.com's #'s (Members and Members Online) as an example only 8% are online as I post this. And of course this doesn't include active/nonactive members.
This thread is a case in point.
If around 10 of us hadn't given it constant CPR, it would have died last Friday...
Comments
If CIG answered Derek in some way, they would not answer him, but ackowleding and offering to backers something. Probably they would talk to Derek too, behind the doors. As I said. Not happening.
P.S.: Probably you are part of the group who flag such posts on sight
-
Star Citizen only exists because Chris Roberts decided to make it.
Without him driving the process, there would have been no Kickstarter and no game.
In those early video's, nobody else was important or relevant. Who do you see in that video ? Chris Roberts, and only Chris Roberts, front and center.
It's HIS reputation that sealed the deal. That's fairly obvious when you consider the response that those video's elicited.
Not sure what your asking, Marketing and Advertising are not the same.
Words of wisdom indeed..
However, there is one small problem with this approach of yours. You see, the people whom opinion actually matters beg to differ with you. Yes, i am referring to the backers, the vast majority of them, the ones who DID give their money to Roberts in order to make SC a reality. The ones with the IMMEDIATE interest in this project because, again, THEY PAID for it, they have ACCESS to Arena Commander and will have ACCESS to Star Marine in a few weeks. These people do not share your concerns and tribulations.
You disagree? Take to the games forums where you can directly interact with them.
Until then keep spewing spite and misinformation.
That's not true. The gameplay videos were very important and relevant. And probably lead more people to spend a lot more that they would if it was just Chris Roberts saying something.
Many forum threads of the earlier time are able to show you that. You are from the earlier times, just like me. So, I guess that its just you pretending again, or if not, sorry, but you have a short memory.
Most of people that I know who pledged weren't in by Chris Roberts, but were attracted by the gameplay. Including the people that I did not know, but watched online the reactions.
His rep helped, no doubt, but was not just that. The most impacting thing was that video and gameplay. Many people who backed earlier asked "ok, who is this guy? and someone told some "pretty" history, and then they pledged and jumped in the bandwagon... attracted by the idea and the "gameplay" shown).
And that was used for a long time (almost 2 years) to make people believe that the development was on track for a full release 2014/earlier 2015.
"Oh, you are not seen the things that are in background"
"Oh, remember that they show an advanced gameplay and worked for an year before"
"Oh, remember that they are a capalbe team and hired a lot of people and are doing things in paralel"
And the cycle repeats today, while more ships are sold.
It's clear at this point that these guys are trolls (or associated with Derek Smart in some way). There's no way anyone that's reasonable could still honestly be posting what they are. It's clearly obvious with the fact that they think a VP of Marketing position requires video face time, according to them. Or, the fact that they still think that any of Derek Smart's 'demands' are reasonable.
"I'm Sandra(?) Roberts VP of CGI, we are proud to introduce this ground breaking new game we are working on called Star Citizen"
Shows videos
KS Flop.
You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am to mine...
I respectfully disagree.
The forum followers are a microscopic number of the CIG Backers. They are unable to represent the opinions of the backers in general, mainly because they are totally biased to forgive (and even between them, you see wars).
Sure we both are.
He would love to "take to their forums" as you put it, but unfortunately he was banned a very long time ago...
True. But that was not fair. And this is not an opinion. This, I have proof. But I don't care. I never would go back to those forums anyway and when I was banned (permanently) I was not even commenting in the forums for that, and the comment that lead to my perma-banning was hilarious.
Anyway, those forums are not a good place to be when you are objective and is not willing to glorify game developers (which is weird, when you are actually one).
Both Star Citizen and Star Citizen Base forums have a sum total of over 150K registered users and both are extremely active with thousands of posts every day.
A microscopic number indeed...
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
VP of Marketing needs someone with experience and insight of the market, and understand of what is more important for a company survive and grow in the long term.
Sandi Gardiner never worked in the game industry. She does not know the market for what she is targeting for. She knows about treat fans (of celebrities), but not the market itself. She is good and nice, only if you praise her like a god. Otherwise, she shows her true face.
She does not understand what a customer is. She has a lot of ego. And is capable of terrible things to protect his job.
She and Ben Lesnick. Both made a lot of mistakes, since together, they lead all the marketing/communication and customer interactions, and in general, sucked with customers to praise a few fans. Both without experience in matters of customers, sales, communication with customers, keeping companies. Zero. Nada. Just because are friends/family, they assumed lead positions. And their "success" again, is an illusion, a short-term success at a higher/fatal cost for the future.
When she sees some critic that is related to her job, even that you don't say her name, she take that as a "personal attack", just like a fanboy or a white knight of Roberts would.
Some developers also gave the same testimony, that clearly was directed to her.
She is unprepared and took decisions, together with other people that also doesn't understand marketing, or the reality of the market, that made quick/easy money, but with terrible consequences for their future. They are basically doomed exactly due the marketing (not even because the game development).
She probably have a negative impact in the team, which looks to a person without experience, just because is the wife of the boss, taking decisions that clearly a trainee would see as bad in the medium/long term, and do not listening, all based on ego and a lack of insight.. just looking to fans and seeing everyone as a fan (probably due her long time living in Hollywood and working as a model, instead a job related to customer).
Roberts also could be driven to feed "her plan" to make "her plan to work" to help her to keep in its position (more money to the familiy, right?). Or he is so short-sighted in these matters as her, which I don't doubt by some of comments that I saw coming from his mouth in some interviews that were seriously ridiculous.
In summary, she does not have what it takes and would have serious difficulties to find a job in anything beyond the "trainee" level in any company that was not owned by Chris Roberts or any of his friends.
A lot of these users are not active at all. There is not a SINGLE pool even in the official comm-links that ever achieved anything near of this number.
And they are all voted by people which uses their forums with multiple accounts too. Actually they are even voted with people without any pledge.
The posts are posted in general by the same people again and again. All them are not even been honest about their opinions. Are there to make that as a PR tool, to defend CIG no matter what. I lost the count of times when I saw those backers saying "oh, but let's not discuss this here", or "lets talk about this in private", "we shouldn't talk about that here"...
Even that they disagree that what CIG do is wrong, they will vote that is right to praise the gods and for proud. They won't speak in what is in their minds, sometimes, with fear of the ban hammer too.
Yes... a microscopic number indeed. They definitely do not represent nothing. The forum are part of a show. Just that.
You never will find more than 1k or 2k "users" commenting there regularly. And that is in the popular moments only.
No doubt their marketing team put a lot of focus on this minority. They are the ones who in general and majority, buy more ships. They think that are doing the right thing. They are not looking into the doors that are closed due their actions and what all that will cause to the perception of all the rest in the medium/long term, and how their strategy is simply making this game a certain flop, even that they release something "average to good" (in the perception of fans, because for the rest, it will just sound terrible).
There you go again.
You are correct that there are good reasons to allow executives to resign/retire etc before an investigation is complete or public. However, there are not any good reasons to FORCE the executive team (not just a single member) to leave before even looking into any allegations.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Before who looking? You know... DS already looked. And is digging more by different means.
And he was who made the demand.
Only wouldn't be without reason if you did not know. But if you know...
So, you are telling us that one of the most active game communities in the world at the time being only consists of some thousand backers, many of them with multiple accounts following CR's agenda and being used as a PR tools. Furthermore, backers aka people who spend their money on SC and are not happy with it's progress don't bother with the product's official forums.
Tens or even hundreds of thousands of backers aka people who have spend THEIR MONEY just stay silent.
You know what, you're way to biased for reasons i do not comprehend for someone to even try to fact with you. In order to advance your version you're prepared to go to any lengths, defy any logic and twist any info or numbers in order to fit your point of view.
I'm done with you.
Using the numbers here from MMORPG.com (Members and Members Online) as an example only 8% are online as I post this. And of course this doesn't include active/nonactive members.
This thread is a case in point.
If around 10 of us hadn't given it constant CPR, it would have died last Friday...