That' not a handful that' alot more than a handful.
20% are under 20 therefore most are over 20 and into adulthood.
I can then scale that survey up as my proof.
Can you show me proof as to where I am wrong?
What percent of the community does that represent? This is a game that is supposed to launch with 4 servers and 100k on each right?
You're kidding! right?
Sadly no...
But their fallback plan is that they believe they will have fully functional NPCs which will be indistinguishable from real players. Even when players log out they stay in game and the AI runs them. This is another one of those "revolutionary" items that they have yet to demonstrate any ability to deliver. We shall see...
OH? So 400,000 players are live all the time ran on 4 server AI?
That is just so incredible my mind is totally blown as why I almost spit the pop on my screen and gave you a WTF!!!!.
Here WoW has about 750,000 CCU (Concurrent Connected Users for those that want to know that CCU means) and has somewhere close to 2000 servers.
Did anyone do a mathematical on the CPU times? Iteration through the loop is usually 10 time a sec by the way. 100,000 x 10 is a million execution cycles of a usually rather long loop for mobs, crafting, combat, removal of dead, spawning mobs, etc... need I go on?
The DB access usually is 1 millisecond per query (given a enterprise level of this would require some pretty hefty CPUs).
That means a tera-flop capable machine. I do hear quantum computers are coming but I think it make take a few more years and maybe a few more servers.
You continued to argue that one machine can't cope with it. Even though I have shown they are not using one machine.
Why?
**Edit**
My point isn't to argue about what is possible or not possible in the real world, it's to point out that Coe is using technology that allows it to scale it's server capacity as required. You obviously didn' know about spatial OS when you made your comments and now that you do you claim its now too expensive to have the servers tied together.
For that point I will use wow since you have already mentioned them. So they had at peak 750k concurrent users according to your figures. Their expenditure for 4 years from 2004-2008 was $200m. This was on blizzards staff, technical equipment and customer services. That's $50m a year, how much of that is from tech and how much from staff/customer services.
If CoE needs to scale that to 100k concurrent users (we can probably scale it down alot more but hey.) It's $6m per year.
Now we are not exactly sure what the estimates are for earning a profit but lets say $30/year per user. 500k * $30 = $15m
Technology isn't that expensive now right
Actually I am kind of done arguing about it LOL. I will tell you this. I know a lot more than you think I know.
In 2001 there was a group of scientist that set out to do a MMO framework middleware as it is called the goal of the project was to make a server that was scalable to infinite number of machines. These guys all were working on their final thesis for a PHD in computer science. The main code base comprised of RPC and the total functional end product did indeed function as designed. That code base was part of the project known as Massiv. The code is complete and fully functional and PROVEN to work. It may have been the very foundation of BigWorlds server since BigWorlds server and it share a very similar source code design. Yes, I had BW source when it was uploaded on torrent in 2006.
Go get it and check it out. I have verified it to do exactly what it was designed to do and posted a video LONG time ago back in 2008.
In another project started as a prosperity project in 2004 and released in MIT license in 2012. It was written in three computer languages. The project was state of the art at the time. The server is written in Java with python front end. The client is written in C# and Python front end. When the project was made MIT and the source code was released to the public I got involved for a short time and then stopped my game development completely.
I took the code of this project and rewrote some of the java to run on 64 bit VM in September. I have been playing around converting the client to a new DX11 engine and have planned to possible release it back to MIT later next year on my GitHub. The code is highly scalable to infinite number of machines and uses RPC, With Mariadb as its database backend it can cluster up to the limits of IPV6 addresses. I have tested it on 16 giga pixel world terrain (131,792 x 131,792 KM and that is so big it is mind blowing. A true streaming engine. The code is Multiverse and you can get a somewhat functional version here.
It will require a LOT of work to get it functional since the master server no longer exists and the master server in the GitHub is broken. The project died in 2014 because Multiverse.net shut off the master re-router. It took several days of code tracing to find the points that needed adjusted and recompiled with new code. The java code needed to be rewritten in some spots to account for the new 64 bit functions.
I am NOT saying that CoE can't be built and made to function but I am saying this is highly costly With 100 people a machine and a number of db servers in a cluster will add up to 1000+ machines to perform all these functions for 100,000 CCU which would again be a world record since BigWorlds claimed it in 2010 with 93,000+. That cost alone is millions of bucks. Then to top it off you have to house the machine, pay the electric and maintain them.
The reason Big business decided to bail is the overhead cost. If they even come close to having enough players to break even by the end of season one it will be a surprise. Player like new toys and grow tired early. The influx of players has to continue past that phase and most likely on a cash shop heavy game they will play a bit a quit even if it is heavily sandbox due to the PTW aspect. Now if CoE wants to be successful they need to start thinking forward about proven monetary marketing.
Getting a bit down the rabbit hole in regards to the OP... but even if you make the leap of faith that somehow these guys will get 100k per server (when reality is that they even struggle with simple websites) the other piece of the statement is that they will have miraculous AI that will control your character when you logout. Put that in perspective by remembering this is a PvP game with looting AND permanent-death (based on some points your soul gets).
I believe that CoE was shocked to find that folks weren't playing his PAX game the way he wanted once they realized they could all just join the same team and they posted how disappointed they were in the community. Just wait until folks go to bed in this game. Talk about a griefer's paradise.
I really wish we could fast forward through time. This games development provides tons of fun, but that's absolutely nothing compared to what "release" will be like.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Getting a bit down the rabbit hole in regards to the OP... but even if you make the leap of faith that somehow these guys will get 100k per server (when reality is that they even struggle with simple websites) the other piece of the statement is that they will have miraculous AI that will control your character when you logout. Put that in perspective by remembering this is a PvP game with looting AND permanent-death (based on some points your soul gets).
I believe that CoE was shocked to find that folks weren't playing his PAX game the way he wanted once they realized they could all just join the same team and they posted how disappointed they were in the community. Just wait until folks go to bed in this game. Talk about a griefer's paradise.
I really wish we could fast forward through time. This games development provides tons of fun, but that's absolutely nothing compared to what "release" will be like.
I think your confused between the AI for NPCs and the player created scripting for the OPCs but since you obviously hate the games concept I will let you off.
Getting a bit down the rabbit hole in regards to the OP... but even if you make the leap of faith that somehow these guys will get 100k per server (when reality is that they even struggle with simple websites) the other piece of the statement is that they will have miraculous AI that will control your character when you logout. Put that in perspective by remembering this is a PvP game with looting AND permanent-death (based on some points your soul gets).
I believe that CoE was shocked to find that folks weren't playing his PAX game the way he wanted once they realized they could all just join the same team and they posted how disappointed they were in the community. Just wait until folks go to bed in this game. Talk about a griefer's paradise.
I really wish we could fast forward through time. This games development provides tons of fun, but that's absolutely nothing compared to what "release" will be like.
I think your confused between the AI for NPCs and the player created scripting for the OPCs but since you obviously hate the games concept I will let you off.
Not confused at all. The players characters will remain in game when they log off and perform tasks. That will be fun to see. Again this is a PvP game with looting and permanent-death. What could possibly go wrong?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Kind of funny seeing all this arguing going on about a game that will probably never see the light of day. Probably the biggest scam on going in the game world.
So when post about spatial in regards to this post:
If CoE needs to scale that to 100k concurrent users (we can probably scale it down alot more but hey.) It's $6m per year.
Now we are not exactly sure what the estimates are for earning a profit but lets say $30/year per user. 500k * $30 = $15m
Technology isn't that expensive now right
500k players for an open-world full-loot PvP game paying $30 per month in the west. Well, I suppose that's type of optimism it takes to believe CoE is remotely feasible to create in the first place.
(really, even if CoE releases AS PROMISED WITH EVERYTHING, I'd be surprised if it exceeds 100k players as an open-world full-loot PvP game. Maybe if this was Korea and CoE was also a mobile game but even then I imagine Lineage has that market cornered)
Kind of funny seeing all this arguing going on about a game that will probably never see the light of day. Probably the biggest scam on going in the game world.
As a species we tend to argue about non-existent stuff since dawn of time, we even launch wars for it!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Kind of funny seeing all this arguing going on about a game that will probably never see the light of day. Probably the biggest scam on going in the game world.
As a species we tend to argue about non-existent stuff since dawn of time, we even launch wars for it!
So when post about spatial in regards to this post:
If CoE needs to scale that to 100k concurrent users (we can probably scale it down alot more but hey.) It's $6m per year.
Now we are not exactly sure what the estimates are for earning a profit but lets say $30/year per user. 500k * $30 = $15m
Technology isn't that expensive now right
500k players for an open-world full-loot PvP game paying $30 per month in the west. Well, I suppose that's type of optimism it takes to believe CoE is remotely feasible to create in the first place.
(really, even if CoE releases AS PROMISED WITH EVERYTHING, I'd be surprised if it exceeds 100k players as an open-world full-loot PvP game. Maybe if this was Korea and CoE was also a mobile game but even then I imagine Lineage has that market cornered)
So when post about spatial in regards to this post:
If CoE needs to scale that to 100k concurrent users (we can probably scale it down alot more but hey.) It's $6m per year.
Now we are not exactly sure what the estimates are for earning a profit but lets say $30/year per user. 500k * $30 = $15m
Technology isn't that expensive now right
500k players for an open-world full-loot PvP game paying $30 per month in the west. Well, I suppose that's type of optimism it takes to believe CoE is remotely feasible to create in the first place.
(really, even if CoE releases AS PROMISED WITH EVERYTHING, I'd be surprised if it exceeds 100k players as an open-world full-loot PvP game. Maybe if this was Korea and CoE was also a mobile game but even then I imagine Lineage has that market cornered)
Might want to reread my comment
Ah, I see. We're just going to nitpick focus on that then? Alright. Well, even if we boil it down to just the dollar amount then and ignore the impossibility of getting 500k users, how'd you get to $30 per year per user anyways? Hmm, nevermind. I suppose it doesn't matter. Calculating "per user" for an F2P game is something F2P companies stopped bothering with long ago since the majority of the revenues is always provided by a small amount of whales.
Thus because it's an F2P model, a more realistic expectation would be for them to not worry about how much money they'll get on a per user basis (and thus not need to worry about how many total users they have) and instead just try to get oh, I don't know, 5 JustDrakes plopping down 2 million a year. Of course, this is the business strategy they're clearly taking already right now so it's a bit redundant for me to bring it up. Still, the main issue being that once the game's actually released, they probably won't be able to create enough items to actually sell for that (Even Shroud of the Avatar can't crank out that much whale bait). But then, they probably won't have to worry about paying for servers for 500k players either anyways because they aren't going to get 500k players.
Time to read up on the game maybe before commenting further?
I mean at least slapshot knows what he is talking about when he makes negative comments, that I can respect.
Honestly it's this kind of tunnel view that caused people too believe in a nonsense project like this in the first place.
You don't even bother to read you just pick one word without bothering about the context and then you tell others to read better which is frankly.. insane.
Time to read up on the game maybe before commenting further?
I mean at least slapshot knows what he is talking about when he makes negative comments, that I can respect.
Honestly it's this kind of tunnel view that caused people too believe in a nonsense project like this in the first place.
You don't even bother to read you just pick one word without bothering about the context and then you tell others to read better which is frankly.. insane.
I read his whole comment, he went on about how I managed to get to the earnings of $30 per player when it' a f2p game.
He also mentioned that it wouldn't make 500k players but thats his opinion and has been discussed before reading through your forums so i didnt need to mention that again.
Oh and finally he took an òbviously rediculous comment that I had donated $2 million as fact and mentioned how they needed more like me to pay for their f2p game.
So in all his post was going over a previously mentioned topic and then going on about a f2p model that CoE is not using
So saying I'm only picking one word and concentrating on that is totally nonesense, something I wouldn't expect from anyone accusing me of not being able to read.
Getting a bit down the rabbit hole in regards to the OP... but even if you make the leap of faith that somehow these guys will get 100k per server (when reality is that they even struggle with simple websites) the other piece of the statement is that they will have miraculous AI that will control your character when you logout. Put that in perspective by remembering this is a PvP game with looting AND permanent-death (based on some points your soul gets).
I believe that CoE was shocked to find that folks weren't playing his PAX game the way he wanted once they realized they could all just join the same team and they posted how disappointed they were in the community. Just wait until folks go to bed in this game. Talk about a griefer's paradise.
I really wish we could fast forward through time. This games development provides tons of fun, but that's absolutely nothing compared to what "release" will be like.
Well the question I had was WTF?! how can this make one server? The answer is SpatialOS! well ok this can work maybe in a high scale cluster but there are some issues with it that need addressed. I for one can see them making it happen. Maybe if they can show a minimal system that works. Nothing fancy just a small scale demo which has yet to be shown.
I would probably give GM more credit since after James took over they actually had a somewhat working demo. It was not the greatest but in 4 months he did show some functionality. I was in a way kind of disappointed in the fact the game never proceeded. I was also almost tempted to buy the rights to it since it already had a following (positive and negative) and was in many way similar to mine BUT that didn't happen so I moved on and invested in a better thing with real stock.
Anyway we needed to go down this rabbit hole to see what the real story is and I think the answer is obvious that it is possible but reference to it needs to be a server cluster not a single server.
Things stated by devs or company representatives during development are subject to change at any time.
Were there any legally binding agreements signed by the devs stating that they will never change things they said?
If no - then the backers need to understand that while its a shitty thing to do, devs didnt break any laws here.
And bottom line - never assume that money doesnt trump all, as in the end no matter what devs intend and say, the reality of money is what speaks the loudest.
Its not that they need to make money, its a question of how much do they need to make and how they make it.
Is a decent standard of living from the game enough? Is becoming millionaires from one game enough? I ask that as it seems for bigger companies enough it never enough.
Secondly how do you make that money? In a way that follows good gaming ethos or not? P2W is never good gaming, clearly a subscription and cosmetic items are not enough. I looked at the list provided and it seemed they are intent on monetising everting they can think of.
Finally that's the cash shop at start, name me the MMO where the cash shop got better...nope they always get worse. As you said its open to change, lets hope so.
Getting a bit down the rabbit hole in regards to the OP... but even if you make the leap of faith that somehow these guys will get 100k per server (when reality is that they even struggle with simple websites) the other piece of the statement is that they will have miraculous AI that will control your character when you logout. Put that in perspective by remembering this is a PvP game with looting AND permanent-death (based on some points your soul gets).
I believe that CoE was shocked to find that folks weren't playing his PAX game the way he wanted once they realized they could all just join the same team and they posted how disappointed they were in the community. Just wait until folks go to bed in this game. Talk about a griefer's paradise.
I really wish we could fast forward through time. This games development provides tons of fun, but that's absolutely nothing compared to what "release" will be like.
Well the question I had was WTF?! how can this make one server? The answer is SpatialOS! well ok this can work maybe in a high scale cluster but there are some issues with it that need addressed. I for one can see them making it happen. Maybe if they can show a minimal system that works. Nothing fancy just a small scale demo which has yet to be shown.
I would probably give GM more credit since after James took over they actually had a somewhat working demo. It was not the greatest but in 4 months he did show some functionality. I was in a way kind of disappointed in the fact the game never proceeded. I was also almost tempted to buy the rights to it since it already had a following (positive and negative) and was in many way similar to mine BUT that didn't happen so I moved on and invested in a better thing with real stock.
Anyway we needed to go down this rabbit hole to see what the real story is and I think the answer is obvious that it is possible but reference to it needs to be a server cluster not a single server.
Give you an agree we did need to go down that and maybe I wasn't fair in the wording I used and for that I apologise.
Your right that spatialOS might well be their answer BUT it needs work, until they get a prototype up and running (which will be the voxel alpha they are working on) we just won't know.
I personally hope they do, CoE if it releases as promised will revolutionize the mmo franchise and allow others to follow with improvements.
Maybe we should now allow the thread to return back to the commodities it was originally set up to discuss.
Things stated by devs or company representatives during development are subject to change at any time.
Were there any legally binding agreements signed by the devs stating that they will never change things they said?
If no - then the backers need to understand that while its a shitty thing to do, devs didnt break any laws here.
And bottom line - never assume that money doesnt trump all, as in the end no matter what devs intend and say, the reality of money is what speaks the loudest.
Its not that they need to make money, its a question of how much do they need to make and how they make it. Is a decent standard of living from the game enough?
Is becoming millionaires from one game enough? I ask that as it seems for bigger companies enough it never enough.
Secondly how do you make that money? In a way that follows good gaming ethos or not? P2W is never good gaming, clearly a subscription and cosmetic items are not enough. I looked at the list provided and it seemed they are intent on monetising everting they can think of.
Finally that's the cash shop at start, name me the MMO where the cash shop got better...nope they always get worse. As you said its open to change, lets hope so.
Their business mode is a strange one at present, they are selling in game assets with the hope that some people will give them away or sell them on to newer players.
Now I know that there is some people at baron and above offering free housing and/or land if new players (when the game is released) join their towns.
How this will work is anyone bet, I also know they are saying no to a cash shop as such after release, appaently it will only be story points and sparks for sale. We will see if it stays that way for a time or not.
Time to read up on the game maybe before commenting further?
I mean at least slapshot knows what he is talking about when he makes negative comments, that I can respect.
Yea, my bad, I erroneously thought there was a semblance of sanity to your premise and thus forgot what CoE's business model currently actually was (also in part because it was such a stupid model that my mind wiped it from memory for the sake of preserving my brain cells). When you said "average of $30 a year", F2P was the only thing that made any sense whatsoever, as that was too little for a subscription amount and a B2P title wouldn't be focusing on yearly revenue per player, leaving F2P as the only other business option. It's been a while so I had forgotten the absolute freak frankenstein business model they were going for that somehow managed to combine all the worse aspects of B2P and subscription into one without the revenue of the F2P model and throwing in long-extinct arcade game monetization models in the process.
So basically you actually sincerely blurted out an argument based off of a premise that a full-loot perma-death open-pvp game that's buy-to-play AND asks for a recurring payment except the recurring payment is absolutely BIZARRE and uncertain (thus turning off even more players because of how FREAKY it is, based on how often you die with each death having varying amounts of cost etc etc what the hell) will have 500k players.
Yea, my apologies for thinking there was a point to arguing with you in the first place. I thought I was arguing with a fish that believed it could fly, which was already ridiculous, but it turned out that I'm actually arguing with a fish that believes it can fly by waving its hands and setting the underwater world on fire, despite the fact that it's underwater and that fish don't have hands.
(and yes, I'm aware that whales aren't fish)
Oh well, no point to arguing here then. Instead, I'll give you some advice. CoE only has funded 3 million so far according to that "CoE's funding continues to grow" thread. Given that you are in for 2 million, as you've stated in that other thread, that means there is only one JustDrake (who funded 2 out of the 3 million so far!). So if you want the game to truly have the funds to reach its true potential, you'd better need to find a cloning machine. Don't worry, anything is possible if you believe.
Give you an agree we did need to go down that and maybe I wasn't fair in the wording I used and for that I apologise.
Your right that spatialOS might well be their answer BUT it needs work, until they get a prototype up and running (which will be the voxel alpha they are working on) we just won't know.
I personally hope they do, CoE if it releases as promised will revolutionize the mmo franchise and allow others to follow with improvements.
Maybe we should now allow the thread to return back to the commodities it was originally set up to discuss.
Voxel? Sorry again WTF?! I thought this was a modified Unreal Engine with high detail graphics now when and where did this change? I haven't been following this game for over a year so I suppose something has changed in the over all design. I guess I better do more research on it. d'uh.
Give you an agree we did need to go down that and maybe I wasn't fair in the wording I used and for that I apologise.
Your right that spatialOS might well be their answer BUT it needs work, until they get a prototype up and running (which will be the voxel alpha they are working on) we just won't know.
I personally hope they do, CoE if it releases as promised will revolutionize the mmo franchise and allow others to follow with improvements.
Maybe we should now allow the thread to return back to the commodities it was originally set up to discuss.
Voxel? Sorry again WTF?! I thought this was a modified Unreal Engine with high detail graphics now when and where did this change? I haven't been following this game for over a year so I suppose something has changed in the over all design. I guess I better do more research on it. d'uh.
Well... along the way... the lead developer decided that since he had never actually developed and published an MMORPG it would be a good idea to develop a few related games at the same time. From this sprang the idea of the Prelude (single player game), Kingdoms (empire building) and Mud games. That further changed as delays creeped in. Instead of the Prelude being released a year ago it's now slated for next year and morphed into a multiplayer build your own adventure type game where you can buy DLC. The Kingdoms game I think is still the original concept while the MUD converted into a minecraft like VoxElyria game which they think will let them test and play early versions of their game. Drake feel free to correct the above if I got one of the current plans wrong.
One thing you have to admit... they have ambition... No demonstrated ability to deliver on it.. but plenty of ambition to spread around... Keep in mind that all of the above, plus Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2, and Exposition (3 month no wipe Headstart for heavy backers) were supposed to have occurred by now with full release next month. To date none of the above have been delivered... no Prelude, no Kingdoms game, No MUD/Voxel game, no testing... no headstart. What they HAVE delivered are additional store sales, the ability to buy $10 tokens to increase your towns/villages, $10 tokens to increase your Guild, $10 tokens to vote for the one unclaimed King spot on the east server and a "jousting" simulator was able to be played by a few people at PAX (kind of like Defender of the Crown from a few decades ago).
On these forums the lead dev said we should see people playing the voxel game in Jan. We will see if they can hit the latest deadline and what it looks like as far as functionality and stability. Either way... I'm sure there will be a new sale
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Give you an agree we did need to go down that and maybe I wasn't fair in the wording I used and for that I apologise.
Your right that spatialOS might well be their answer BUT it needs work, until they get a prototype up and running (which will be the voxel alpha they are working on) we just won't know.
I personally hope they do, CoE if it releases as promised will revolutionize the mmo franchise and allow others to follow with improvements.
Maybe we should now allow the thread to return back to the commodities it was originally set up to discuss.
Voxel? Sorry again WTF?! I thought this was a modified Unreal Engine with high detail graphics now when and where did this change? I haven't been following this game for over a year so I suppose something has changed in the over all design. I guess I better do more research on it. d'uh.
Well... along the way... the lead developer decided that since he had never actually developed and published an MMORPG it would be a good idea to develop a few related games at the same time. From this sprang the idea of the Prelude (single player game), Kingdoms (empire building) and Mud games. That further changed as delays creeped in. Instead of the Prelude being released a year ago it's now slated for next year and morphed into a multiplayer build your own adventure type game where you can buy DLC. The Kingdoms game I think is still the original concept while the MUD converted into a minecraft like VoxElyria game which they think will let them test and play early versions of their game. Drake feel free to correct the above if I got one of the current plans wrong.
One thing you have to admit... they have ambition... No demonstrated ability to deliver on it.. but plenty of ambition to spread around... Keep in mind that all of the above, plus Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2, and Exposition (3 month no wipe Headstart for heavy backers) were supposed to have occurred by now with full release next month. To date none of the above have been delivered... no Prelude, no Kingdoms game, No MUD/Voxel game, no testing... no headstart. What they HAVE delivered are additional store sales, the ability to buy $10 tokens to increase your towns/villages, $10 tokens to increase your Guild, $10 tokens to vote for the one unclaimed King spot on the east server and a "jousting" simulator was able to be played by a few people at PAX (kind of like Defender of the Crown from a few decades ago).
On these forums the lead dev said we should see people playing the voxel game in Jan. We will see if they can hit the latest deadline and what it looks like as far as functionality and stability. Either way... I'm sure there will be a new sale
HOLY FK! LOL.
That is pretty ambitious to say the least. Why do all that though? I mean I pointed to an existing engine that DOES MMOs already out of the box. Not the greatest graphics but the entire design is doable at a scale of 2^63 computers. It is being used as minecraft server BTW. it is Multiverse minecraft or something.
Getting people to give you tons of money so that you can add making and selling games as a step in the development process of your MMORPG is totally the next new thing. Star Citizen's going down that path too after all. We are entering an exciting new age where when you crowdfund an MMORPG, you aren't just crowdfunding an MMORPG. You're crowdfunding an entire franchise! Huzzah!
It was a sarcastic comment nothing more nothing less.
Also I quoted 500k since we were discussing the ability to host 500k players and that is what sbs are aiming for.
As to the business model I agree it's odd but will be interesting to see if it works.
Dude if you were in for $2m we would've been talking to your secretary instead!
"yeah my boss really believes in this project, you know how rich people get bored... Yeah if I had $2m to spare I would've paid my rent instead... but my boss thinks Slapshot1188 is vendictive for no good reason."
You know!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Comments
In 2001 there was a group of scientist that set out to do a MMO framework middleware as it is called the goal of the project was to make a server that was scalable to infinite number of machines. These guys all were working on their final thesis for a PHD in computer science. The main code base comprised of RPC and the total functional end product did indeed function as designed. That code base was part of the project known as Massiv. The code is complete and fully functional and PROVEN to work. It may have been the very foundation of BigWorlds server since BigWorlds server and it share a very similar source code design. Yes, I had BW source when it was uploaded on torrent in 2006.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/massiv/?source=directory
Go get it and check it out. I have verified it to do exactly what it was designed to do and posted a video LONG time ago back in 2008.
In another project started as a prosperity project in 2004 and released in MIT license in 2012. It was written in three computer languages. The project was state of the art at the time. The server is written in Java with python front end. The client is written in C# and Python front end. When the project was made MIT and the source code was released to the public I got involved for a short time and then stopped my game development completely.
I took the code of this project and rewrote some of the java to run on 64 bit VM in September. I have been playing around converting the client to a new DX11 engine and have planned to possible release it back to MIT later next year on my GitHub. The code is highly scalable to infinite number of machines and uses RPC, With Mariadb as its database backend it can cluster up to the limits of IPV6 addresses. I have tested it on 16 giga pixel world terrain (131,792 x 131,792 KM and that is so big it is mind blowing. A true streaming engine. The code is Multiverse and you can get a somewhat functional version here.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/multiverse3d/files/?source=navbar
It will require a LOT of work to get it functional since the master server no longer exists and the master server in the GitHub is broken. The project died in 2014 because Multiverse.net shut off the master re-router. It took several days of code tracing to find the points that needed adjusted and recompiled with new code. The java code needed to be rewritten in some spots to account for the new 64 bit functions.
I am NOT saying that CoE can't be built and made to function but I am saying this is highly costly With 100 people a machine and a number of db servers in a cluster will add up to 1000+ machines to perform all these functions for 100,000 CCU which would again be a world record since BigWorlds claimed it in 2010 with 93,000+. That cost alone is millions of bucks. Then to top it off you have to house the machine, pay the electric and maintain them.
The reason Big business decided to bail is the overhead cost. If they even come close to having enough players to break even by the end of season one it will be a surprise. Player like new toys and grow tired early. The influx of players has to continue past that phase and most likely on a cash shop heavy game they will play a bit a quit even if it is heavily sandbox due to the PTW aspect. Now if CoE wants to be successful they need to start thinking forward about proven monetary marketing.
I do wish them luck.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
I believe that CoE was shocked to find that folks weren't playing his PAX game the way he wanted once they realized they could all just join the same team and they posted how disappointed they were in the community. Just wait until folks go to bed in this game. Talk about a griefer's paradise.
I really wish we could fast forward through time. This games development provides tons of fun, but that's absolutely nothing compared to what "release" will be like.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Here for example:
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
(really, even if CoE releases AS PROMISED WITH EVERYTHING, I'd be surprised if it exceeds 100k players as an open-world full-loot PvP game. Maybe if this was Korea and CoE was also a mobile game but even then I imagine Lineage has that market cornered)
Might want to reread my comment
Thus because it's an F2P model, a more realistic expectation would be for them to not worry about how much money they'll get on a per user basis (and thus not need to worry about how many total users they have) and instead just try to get oh, I don't know, 5 JustDrakes plopping down 2 million a year. Of course, this is the business strategy they're clearly taking already right now so it's a bit redundant for me to bring it up. Still, the main issue being that once the game's actually released, they probably won't be able to create enough items to actually sell for that (Even Shroud of the Avatar can't crank out that much whale bait). But then, they probably won't have to worry about paying for servers for 500k players either anyways because they aren't going to get 500k players.
Time to read up on the game maybe before commenting further?
I mean at least slapshot knows what he is talking about when he makes negative comments, that I can respect.
You don't even bother to read you just pick one word without bothering about the context and then you tell others to read better which is frankly.. insane.
He also mentioned that it wouldn't make 500k players but thats his opinion and has been discussed before reading through your forums so i didnt need to mention that again.
Oh and finally he took an òbviously rediculous comment that I had donated $2 million as fact and mentioned how they needed more like me to pay for their f2p game.
So in all his post was going over a previously mentioned topic and then going on about a f2p model that CoE is not using
So saying I'm only picking one word and concentrating on that is totally nonesense, something I wouldn't expect from anyone accusing me of not being able to read.
I would probably give GM more credit since after James took over they actually had a somewhat working demo. It was not the greatest but in 4 months he did show some functionality. I was in a way kind of disappointed in the fact the game never proceeded. I was also almost tempted to buy the rights to it since it already had a following (positive and negative) and was in many way similar to mine BUT that didn't happen so I moved on and invested in a better thing with real stock.
Anyway we needed to go down this rabbit hole to see what the real story is and I think the answer is obvious that it is possible but reference to it needs to be a server cluster not a single server.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Is a decent standard of living from the game enough? Is becoming millionaires from one game enough? I ask that as it seems for bigger companies enough it never enough.
Secondly how do you make that money? In a way that follows good gaming ethos or not? P2W is never good gaming, clearly a subscription and cosmetic items are not enough. I looked at the list provided and it seemed they are intent on monetising everting they can think of.
Finally that's the cash shop at start, name me the MMO where the cash shop got better...nope they always get worse. As you said its open to change, lets hope so.
Your right that spatialOS might well be their answer BUT it needs work, until they get a prototype up and running (which will be the voxel alpha they are working on) we just won't know.
I personally hope they do, CoE if it releases as promised will revolutionize the mmo franchise and allow others to follow with improvements.
Maybe we should now allow the thread to return back to the commodities it was originally set up to discuss.
Now I know that there is some people at baron and above offering free housing and/or land if new players (when the game is released) join their towns.
How this will work is anyone bet, I also know they are saying no to a cash shop as such after release, appaently it will only be story points and sparks for sale.
We will see if it stays that way for a time or not.
So basically you actually sincerely blurted out an argument based off of a premise that a full-loot perma-death open-pvp game that's buy-to-play AND asks for a recurring payment except the recurring payment is absolutely BIZARRE and uncertain (thus turning off even more players because of how FREAKY it is, based on how often you die with each death having varying amounts of cost etc etc what the hell) will have 500k players.
Yea, my apologies for thinking there was a point to arguing with you in the first place. I thought I was arguing with a fish that believed it could fly, which was already ridiculous, but it turned out that I'm actually arguing with a fish that believes it can fly by waving its hands and setting the underwater world on fire, despite the fact that it's underwater and that fish don't have hands.
(and yes, I'm aware that whales aren't fish)
Oh well, no point to arguing here then. Instead, I'll give you some advice. CoE only has funded 3 million so far according to that "CoE's funding continues to grow" thread. Given that you are in for 2 million, as you've stated in that other thread, that means there is only one JustDrake (who funded 2 out of the 3 million so far!). So if you want the game to truly have the funds to reach its true potential, you'd better need to find a cloning machine. Don't worry, anything is possible if you believe.
It was a sarcastic comment nothing more nothing less.
Also I quoted 500k since we were discussing the ability to host 500k players and that is what sbs are aiming for.
As to the business model I agree it's odd but will be interesting to see if it works.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Drake feel free to correct the above if I got one of the current plans wrong.
One thing you have to admit... they have ambition... No demonstrated ability to deliver on it.. but plenty of ambition to spread around... Keep in mind that all of the above, plus Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2, and Exposition (3 month no wipe Headstart for heavy backers) were supposed to have occurred by now with full release next month. To date none of the above have been delivered... no Prelude, no Kingdoms game, No MUD/Voxel game, no testing... no headstart. What they HAVE delivered are additional store sales, the ability to buy $10 tokens to increase your towns/villages, $10 tokens to increase your Guild, $10 tokens to vote for the one unclaimed King spot on the east server and a "jousting" simulator was able to be played by a few people at PAX (kind of like Defender of the Crown from a few decades ago).
On these forums the lead dev said we should see people playing the voxel game in Jan. We will see if they can hit the latest deadline and what it looks like as far as functionality and stability. Either way... I'm sure there will be a new sale
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
That is pretty ambitious to say the least. Why do all that though? I mean I pointed to an existing engine that DOES MMOs already out of the box. Not the greatest graphics but the entire design is doable at a scale of 2^63 computers. It is being used as minecraft server BTW. it is Multiverse minecraft or something.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
"yeah my boss really believes in this project, you know how rich people get bored... Yeah if I had $2m to spare I would've paid my rent instead... but my boss thinks Slapshot1188 is vendictive for no good reason."
You know!