Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

CoE announces plan to commoditize and sell many perks individually, gets hit in face with backlash.

16791112

Comments

  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    Coated said:
    A fool and their money are soon parted. 

    For the people that actually support these things, what do your parents think of that expense on their credit card?
    Most of the community are well into their adulthood and probably earn alot more than you that they can risk thousands of dollars on a game that may or may not get released.

    By accusing them of being children is demeaning and ridiculous, therefore I suggest you look into the community before throwing out insults.
    YashaX
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    edited November 2017
    JustDrake said:
    Coated said:
    A fool and their money are soon parted. 

    For the people that actually support these things, what do your parents think of that expense on their credit card?
    Most of the community are well into their adulthood and probably earn alot more than you that they can risk thousands of dollars on a game that may or may not get released.

    By accusing them of being children is demeaning and ridiculous, therefore I suggest you look into the community before throwing out insults.
    Actually... "most of the community" are not risking thousands.  A small percentage are.  A small, vocal percentage to be sure... and very much invested into the double super secret high roller forum.. but no... not "most".

    As for the age.. I have no idea how old "most" supporters are nor I assume.. do you actually know outside of maybe a handful that you have spoken to personally.   That said... it's irrelevant how old they are nor how they paid for the game.  At least in my mind.


    JamesGoblinYashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    JustDrake said:
    Coated said:
    A fool and their money are soon parted. 

    For the people that actually support these things, what do your parents think of that expense on their credit card?
    Most of the community are well into their adulthood and probably earn alot more than you that they can risk thousands of dollars on a game that may or may not get released.

    By accusing them of being children is demeaning and ridiculous, therefore I suggest you look into the community before throwing out insults.
    Actually... "most of the community" are not risking thousands.  A small percentage are.  A small, vocal percentage to be sure... and very much invested into the double super secret high roller forum.. but no... not "most".

    As for the age.. I have no idea how old "most" supporters are nor I assume.. do you actually know outside of maybe a handful that you have spoken to personally.   That said... it's irrelevant how old they are nor how they paid for the game.  At least in my mind.


    I have spoke to alot more than a handful, I have also seen the introduction thread on the Coe forums.

    I agree that age doesn't matter, my reply was to the person I quoted
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    JustDrake said:
    JustDrake said:
    Coated said:
    A fool and their money are soon parted. 

    For the people that actually support these things, what do your parents think of that expense on their credit card?
    Most of the community are well into their adulthood and probably earn alot more than you that they can risk thousands of dollars on a game that may or may not get released.

    By accusing them of being children is demeaning and ridiculous, therefore I suggest you look into the community before throwing out insults.
    Actually... "most of the community" are not risking thousands.  A small percentage are.  A small, vocal percentage to be sure... and very much invested into the double super secret high roller forum.. but no... not "most".

    As for the age.. I have no idea how old "most" supporters are nor I assume.. do you actually know outside of maybe a handful that you have spoken to personally.   That said... it's irrelevant how old they are nor how they paid for the game.  At least in my mind.


    I have spoke to alot more than a handful, I have also seen the introduction thread on the Coe forums.

    I agree that age doesn't matter, my reply was to the person I quoted
    OK, how many members are in the community? How many have bought the game?  Did you actually verify that "most" of those people are adults?  No... that's a rhetorical question.. you obviously didn't.  So trying to state your opinion as fact.. when it can be demonstrably proven to be simply your opinion... is EXACTLY what you accuse others of doing.  So if you are going to call out others for that with NO proof.. believe me when I say you will be called out when it can be easily proven you are talking out of your ass.


    JamesGoblinYashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    edited November 2017
    So you can disprove that most are adults, you understand how census and statistics work right?

    You take a sample of a population work in your thesis,  (in this case the population is the Coe community the thesis that most are adults) you then scale this up. This is what done in real life on numerous occasions.

    Therefore taking that I know most of the populations of at least 4 eu kingdoms are into adulthood I can extrapolate that therefore a large portion of the entire Coe community is into their adulthood.

    So it's not talking out my arse it's using well known mathematical models and applying them here.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    JustDrake said:
    So you can disprove that most are adults, you understand how census and statistics work right?

    You take a sample of a population work in your thesis,  (in this case the population is the Coe community the thesis that most are adults) you then scale this up. This is what done in real life on numerous occasions.

    Therefore taking that I know most of the populations of at least 4 eu kingdoms are into adulthood I can extrapolate that therefore a large portion of the entire Coe community is into their adulthood.

    So it's not talking out my arse it's using well known mathematical models and applying them here.
    If you actually knew this... you would know that maybe, just maybe your small segment of the population is not analogous to the rest of the population.  Just like the members of this forum are NOT analogous to the average MMORPG gamer.   What you are doing would be the same as me saying:  Well 8 out of 10 people on this forum think CoE is a joke... so 80% of the world must agree or even 80% of gamers.  No... we are the more hardcore... and not interchangeable with the others.  Just like people who are active in a make believe fantasy kingdom 2 years before it's released are a tiny hardcore subset of the actual community.   That's pretty obvious to anyone.

    So please... stop talking shit.  But yes Ordanska... we have missed you.

    JamesGoblinYashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/2794/poll-how-old-are-you

    That' not a handful that' alot more than a handful.

    20% are under 20 therefore most are over 20 and into adulthood.

    I can then scale that survey up as my proof.

    Can you show me proof as to where I am wrong?
    YashaX
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    JustDrake said:
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/2794/poll-how-old-are-you

    That' not a handful that' alot more than a handful.

    20% are under 20 therefore most are over 20 and into adulthood.

    I can then scale that survey up as my proof.

    Can you show me proof as to where I am wrong?
    What percent of the community does that represent? This is a game that is supposed to launch with 4 servers and 100k on each right?  That's 400,000.  That's a poll of not even 0.4% of the proposed player base.  What spectrum does that 0.4% represent?  Again... you are polling the most hardcore part of your fan base that are "participating" 2 years before release.  That was also a poll from 18 months ago.  Do you know how many of those people are still following the game? How many gave up due to the 2 year delay?
    If I put up a poll on these forums do you think more people would feel positively or negatively about the game?  If I then tried to say that represented anything other than the views of the people who voted you would rightly call bullshit.

    This is a non-issue anyhow as I couldn't care less how old they were or how they paid for the game. Just take this as fair warning that unlike the official forums you will be called on it when trying to pass your opinion off as fact.  I'm sure you will do the same and I look forward to you doing so! 

    ArChWindYashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    We your stating the aimed for population, I am talking about the Current active population that has donated money to sbs.

    That is where this line of converation started on "those children who have used their parents credit cards"

    Those people are the ones active on the forums and 1500 of them have answered a poll. Even if the game has 15k donators that's 10%.

    Your math is flawed..
    YashaX
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    JustDrake said:
    We your stating the aimed for population, I am talking about the Current active population that has donated money to sbs.

    That is where this line of converation started on "those children who have used their parents credit cards"

    Those people are the ones active on the forums and 1500 of them have answered a poll. Even if the game has 15k donators that's 10%.

    Your math is flawed..
    Your statement is once again incorrect.  As you correctly showed... his statement was related to anyone who bought the game.  I have no idea how many people that is.  My point was not that the 400000 number was right... but that YOU have no idea either.   You are using a poll from 18 months ago of a small subset of the population.

    Again though.. it's irrelevant.  I think you have gotten the point now so I look forward to your other topics.

    YashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    Lmao the 400,000 is a non existent figure especially as you claim the game won' launch.

    You can not use a launch estimate and also claim it won't launch.
    We are talking about the current population and I've shown you that I can show more than the handful of people you claim are children.

    What I have just realised about you in the few hours of knowing you is that when your proven wrong you change your goalposts to suit yourself.
    Therefore I can leave this discussion knowing that your going to argue your point with ever changing variables because you have to be right.
    YashaX
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    JustDrake said:
    Lmao the 400,000 is a non existent figure especially as you claim the game won' launch.

    You can not use a launch estimate and also claim it won't launch.
    We are talking about the current population and I've shown you that I can show more than the handful of people you claim are children.

    What I have just realised about you in the few hours of knowing you is that when your proven wrong you change your goalposts to suit yourself.
    Therefore I can leave this discussion knowing that your going to argue your point with ever changing variables because you have to be right.
    Ummm.. is that goodbye?

    YashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    No it's me no longer discussing a point with someone who keeps changing his goalposts making it impossible to debate a point.
    genaknoscYashaX
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    JustDrake said:
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/2794/poll-how-old-are-you

    That' not a handful that' alot more than a handful.

    20% are under 20 therefore most are over 20 and into adulthood.

    I can then scale that survey up as my proof.

    Can you show me proof as to where I am wrong?
    What percent of the community does that represent? This is a game that is supposed to launch with 4 servers and 100k on each right? 

    You're kidding! right?
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    ArChWind said:
    JustDrake said:
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/2794/poll-how-old-are-you

    That' not a handful that' alot more than a handful.

    20% are under 20 therefore most are over 20 and into adulthood.

    I can then scale that survey up as my proof.

    Can you show me proof as to where I am wrong?
    What percent of the community does that represent? This is a game that is supposed to launch with 4 servers and 100k on each right? 

    You're kidding! right?
    Sadly no...

    But their fallback plan is that they believe they will have fully functional NPCs which will be indistinguishable from real players.  Even when players log out they stay in game and the AI runs them.   This is another one of those "revolutionary" items that they have yet to demonstrate any ability to deliver.   We shall see...

    JamesGoblinYashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    edited November 2017
    ArChWind said:
    JustDrake said:
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/2794/poll-how-old-are-you

    That' not a handful that' alot more than a handful.

    20% are under 20 therefore most are over 20 and into adulthood.

    I can then scale that survey up as my proof.

    Can you show me proof as to where I am wrong?
    What percent of the community does that represent? This is a game that is supposed to launch with 4 servers and 100k on each right? 

    You're kidding! right?
    Sadly no...

    But their fallback plan is that they believe they will have fully functional NPCs which will be indistinguishable from real players.  Even when players log out they stay in game and the AI runs them.   This is another one of those "revolutionary" items that they have yet to demonstrate any ability to deliver.   We shall see...


    OH? So 400,000 players are live all the time ran on 4 server AI?

    That is just so incredible my mind is totally blown as why I almost spit the pop on my screen and gave you a WTF!!!!.

    Here WoW has about 750,000 CCU (Concurrent Connected Users for those that want to know that CCU means) and has somewhere close to 2000 servers.

    Did anyone do a mathematical on the CPU times?  Iteration through the loop is usually 10 time a sec by the way. 100,000 x 10 is a million execution cycles of a usually rather long loop for mobs, crafting, combat, removal of dead, spawning mobs, etc...  need I go on?

    The DB access usually is 1 millisecond per query (given a enterprise level of this would require some pretty hefty CPUs).

    That means a tera-flop capable machine. I do hear quantum computers are coming but I think it make take a few more years and maybe a few more servers.

    Gdemami
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    edited November 2017
    ArChWind said:

    OH? So 400,000 players are live all the time ran on 4 server AI?

    That is just so incredible my mind is totally blown as why I almost spit the pop on my screen and gave you a WTF!!!!.

    Here WoW has about 750,000 CCU (Concurrent Connected Users for those that want to know that CCU means) and has somewhere close to 2000 servers.

    Did anyone do a mathematical on the CPU times?  Iteration through the loop is usually 10 time a sec by the way. 100,000 x 10 is a million execution cycles of a usually rather long loop for mobs, crafting, combat, removal of dead, spawning mobs, etc...  need I go on?

    The DB access usually is 1 millisecond per query (given a enterprise level of this would require some pretty hefty CPUs).

    That means a tera-flop capable machine. I do hear quantum computers are coming but I think it make take a few more years and maybe a few more servers.

    According to its fans, CoE will make it happen.  You just gotta believe!  And give money.  Lots of it.
    YashaX
  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    Or you guys would actually follow the game and realise how it's possible instead of spewing out crap.

    Look up what technology they are using.

    Here you to help you out a little...

    https://improbable.io/games
    YashaX
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    edited November 2017
    JustDrake said:
    Or you guys would actually follow the game and realise how it's possible instead of spewing out crap.

    Look up what technology they are using.

    Here you to help you out a little...

    https://improbable.io/games
    Yep, I've read about their unproven "magic" cloud tech which is going to make everything possible. I'll believe it when I see it.

    Also, appears it doesn't solve all problems, from the July newsletter: 

    "While SpatialOS solves the problem of scalability, there's still a ton of systems which aren't spatial in nature and won't be using SpatialOS. Even among the systems that will use SpatialOS there are a lot of core features which must go in place before you can really call something an MMORPG."
    YashaX

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • CazrielCazriel Member RarePosts: 419
    Well before it has launched, this game really delivers in entertainment value. 
    YashaX
  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    The spatial post was about the CPU issues and how they solve it.

    Not how they plan to make the whole game, please read my posts in their context.
    Why is everyone here always changing the goalposts when one of their negative comments is solved.

    Btw spatial isn't unproven games have already been released using it.
    YashaX
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    JustDrake said:
    Or you guys would actually follow the game and realise how it's possible instead of spewing out crap.

    Look up what technology they are using.

    Here you to help you out a little...

    https://improbable.io/games
    I think I will go with the facts of computer science.

    I mean not to discourage or belittle you but there is the thing called time of execution and as of today is not possible to make any program that will do this on a single machine. At best a single machine of 2 cores can handle about 25 to 40 CCU with 40 being about full load with little time left to do much anything else. If the load gets to heavy the machine starts to fall behind and then there is a lag time between transmits. this lag is not noticeable until it starts getting past the execution cycle of the iteration  of the game loop. Once it get to far behind it starts showing up on the client as in rubber banding, delay on updating the mobs and so forth. Most design is to reduce or increase the numbers depending on how much stuff happens on the server but to never push the normal load past 70% of the capacity and under heavy load pass the work load off to a slave machine.

    The serialization of data for transmit and the fact it needs encrypted alone makes it impossible.

    Now if they had said a 1000 users I may have some though it be possible with most of the server being on the clients and not encrypted using a peer to peer design. Although it is very easy to overtake a client from outside the network since it leaves the client exposed to the internet. I highly doubt people would want to have their computer hacked. Asked some people that play Tera about hacking a client through the chat system as it is exposed through the server.

    I been around this board a long time. One of my interest is servers and game engines. I have in fact worked on and been involved in servers since 1986 so it is not as if I lack understanding on the subject. I am currently working on a rewrite of an engine to make it 64 bit.  The server is done and it can do maybe 100 CCU on 4 CPUs due to the iteration loop. It is highly scalable and works in a cluster. 

    Unrealistic statements like these are why investors just walk away because they most times have some understanding of what they are going to invest in.
    GdemamiKyleran
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    Great post, I didnt need it due to my area of specialty but then I don't intend to get into a my **** is bigger than yours match.

    Your post was still to do with to single machine still.


    As I said read up on the technology, it works by using as many machines as needed (called workers I believe) these are linked using the Spatial OS to create what is believed to be a seamless world on one server.
    In reality it's as many servers linked together as needed for the "single server"

    Now that's the simple way of putting it.

    Here is the Spatial OS link for the info:
    https://improbable.io/games/tech

    You think someone who worked on servers would keep up with all the Current advances in technology.
    YashaX
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    edited November 2017
    JustDrake said:
    Great post, I didnt need it due to my area of specialty but then I don't intend to get into a my **** is bigger than yours match.

    Your post was still to do with to single machine still.


    As I said read up on the technology, it works by using as many machines as needed (called workers I believe) these are linked using the Spatial OS to create what is believed to be a seamless world on one server.
    In reality it's as many servers linked together as needed for the "single server"

    Now that's the simple way of putting it.

    Here is the Spatial OS link for the info:
    https://improbable.io/games/tech

    You think someone who worked on servers would keep up with all the Current advances in technology.
    I know what it is. I did just tell you that in fact one machine can't do it now did I not say that?

    Now you come back and argue multiple machines. Well, yes, multiple machines can in fact do tera-flop and beyond. In fact it is possible to tie up to 2^63 machines together but the cost is a bit steep.

    I don't know if they can or can't but when someone says 100,000 per machine I know it is not possible.

    GdemamiKyleran
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • JustDrakeJustDrake Member UncommonPosts: 72
    edited November 2017
    So when post about spatial in regards to this post:

    ArChWind said:
    ArChWind said:
    JustDrake said:
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/2794/poll-how-old-are-you

    That' not a handful that' alot more than a handful.

    20% are under 20 therefore most are over 20 and into adulthood.

    I can then scale that survey up as my proof.

    Can you show me proof as to where I am wrong?
    What percent of the community does that represent? This is a game that is supposed to launch with 4 servers and 100k on each right? 

    You're kidding! right?
    Sadly no...

    But their fallback plan is that they believe they will have fully functional NPCs which will be indistinguishable from real players.  Even when players log out they stay in game and the AI runs them.   This is another one of those "revolutionary" items that they have yet to demonstrate any ability to deliver.   We shall see...


    OH? So 400,000 players are live all the time ran on 4 server AI?

    That is just so incredible my mind is totally blown as why I almost spit the pop on my screen and gave you a WTF!!!!.

    Here WoW has about 750,000 CCU (Concurrent Connected Users for those that want to know that CCU means) and has somewhere close to 2000 servers.

    Did anyone do a mathematical on the CPU times?  Iteration through the loop is usually 10 time a sec by the way. 100,000 x 10 is a million execution cycles of a usually rather long loop for mobs, crafting, combat, removal of dead, spawning mobs, etc...  need I go on?

    The DB access usually is 1 millisecond per query (given a enterprise level of this would require some pretty hefty CPUs).

    That means a tera-flop capable machine. I do hear quantum computers are coming but I think it make take a few more years and maybe a few more servers.

    You continued to argue that one machine can't cope with it. Even though I have shown they are not using one machine.

    Why?

    **Edit**

    My point isn't to argue about what is possible or not possible in the real world, it's to point out that Coe is using technology that allows it to scale it's server capacity as required.
    You obviously didn' know about spatial OS when you made your comments and now that you do you claim its now too expensive to have the servers tied together.
     

    For that point I will use wow since you have already mentioned them.
    So they had at peak 750k concurrent users according to your figures.
    Their expenditure for 4 years from 2004-2008 was $200m. This was on blizzards staff, technical equipment and customer services. That's $50m a year, how much of that is from tech and how much from staff/customer services.

    If CoE needs to scale that to 100k concurrent users (we can probably scale it down alot more but hey.) It's $6m per year.

    Now we are not exactly sure what the estimates are for earning a profit but lets say $30/year per user.
    500k * $30 = $15m

    Technology isn't that expensive now right
    Post edited by JustDrake on
Sign In or Register to comment.