There were 19 dungeons (some with mutliple parts) in WoW at release. You could pretty much level up doing nothing but dungeons. I'm sticking with my original assessment.
Pappy - at least be honest enough that 'no dungeons to speak of' is much less than the list I provided - and hence you were misinformed.
Sorry but I disagree. 2 dungeons half way thru the game just isn't enough. We can quibble about the wording all we want, but the general idea still stands. The game is lacking in PvE, including the number of dungeons.
If you are playing WAR for PVE then I am confused. Did anyone play DAOC for PVE? Don't mean that to sound harsh but I don't go to McDonald's for fried chicken... I go to KFC or Popeye's.
I'll give you fanboyism, but not ignorance. I don't comment on things I know nothing about. I played War for over a month. That's enough time to form an opinion on the game. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I wasn't ignorant on the subject matter. I don't have to know exactly how many dungeons are in the game to know it's not enough when you hit level 20 of 40 and you've only seen 1 dungeon.
And by the way, some of the reply's I've seen have been incorrect or at the very least less than completely accurate. I've tried salvaging just normal greens and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I don't know what the problem is but Talisman making is a joke of a profession. And I was right about the emotes, they are sorry. Try comparing emotes in War to just about any other game and they are terrible. Most have no animation. Most have no sound. It simply says "so and so yells". Well whoop de freakin' do! There's no dancing, yeah I know, it's all about the war and there's no dancing in war. Don't these people celebrate a victory?
Sorry, but the game just lacks a lot of stuff that is expected in an MMO. Don't believe me though, just look at the indicators. Sales of the game have slowed. XFIRE numbers are dropping. Recent reviews have been tougher on the game. Subscription numbers will be coming out soon and it's not looking good. It's gonna do about as well as AoC did, maybe a bit better, but that's it. It's not even gonna do as well as LOTRO. Mythic didn't knock the ball out of the park. They took a swing and they fouled it off. It could have been so much better especially coming from a developer that already had 1 MMO under their belt.
If you are playing WAR for PVE then I am confused. Did anyone play DAOC for PVE? Don't mean that to sound harsh but I don't go to McDonald's for fried chicken... I go to KFC or Popeye's.
And when I'm choosing ONE restaraunt for ALL my dining needs, I pick one that has a breakfast, lunch and dinner menu, not one that just serves breakfast.
Originally posted by Pappy13 Sorry, but the game just lacks a lot of stuff that is expected in an MMO. Don't believe me though, just look at the indicators. Sales of the game have slowed. XFIRE numbers are dropping. Recent reviews have been tougher on the game. Subscription numbers will be coming out soon and it's not looking good. It's gonna do about as well as AoC did, maybe a bit better, but that's it. It's not even gonna do as well as LOTRO. Mythic didn't knock the ball out of the park. They took a swing and they fouled it off. It could have been so much better especially coming from a developer that already had 1 MMO under their belt. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Pappy13: You know I really played WoW for a long time and give the game alot of credit. It is the kind of nonsense above that scares me from someone that praises himself to be objective.
Just like anyone could predict X-fire numbers grew like mad in the early days of WAR release. After that there has been a decline since some players do not like the game and the players that do play the game play slightly less than in the first 2 weeks of crazy ranking up.
After that there has been a steady inflow of players and now the X-fire numbers are growing again after release on a week-to-week comparison basis.
All of this is as expected after a massive release (it is exactly how numbers would play out if you would model it). When someone then states that 'sales have slowed', 'X-fire numbers are dropping' etc without any reasoning to back it up it is borderline ignorant.
My hope is that both WAR and WoW will become strong brands in the market. WoW already is. So far WAR is delivering exactly what you can expect from a game that will become a strong brand. What the coming months will show is unknown however.
Originally posted by Pappy13 Sorry, but the game just lacks a lot of stuff that is expected in an MMO. Don't believe me though, just look at the indicators. Sales of the game have slowed. XFIRE numbers are dropping. Recent reviews have been tougher on the game. Subscription numbers will be coming out soon and it's not looking good. It's gonna do about as well as AoC did, maybe a bit better, but that's it. It's not even gonna do as well as LOTRO. Mythic didn't knock the ball out of the park. They took a swing and they fouled it off. It could have been so much better especially coming from a developer that already had 1 MMO under their belt. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Pappy13: You know I really played WoW for a long time and give the game alot of credit. It is the kind of nonsense above that scares me from someone that praises himself to be objective.
Just like anyone could predict X-fire numbers grew like mad in the early days of WAR release. After that there has been a decline since some players do not like the game and the players that do play the game play slightly less than in the first 2 weeks of crazy ranking up.
After that there has been a steady inflow of players and now the X-fire numbers are growing again after release on a week-to-week comparison basis.
All of this is as expected after a massive release (it is exactly how numbers would play out if you would model it). When someone then states that 'sales have slowed', 'X-fire numbers are dropping' etc without any reasoning to back it up it is borderline ignorant.
My hope is that both WAR and WoW will become strong brands in the market. WoW already is. So far WAR is delivering exactly what you can expect from a game that will become a strong brand. What the coming months will show is unknown however.
Stop spreading lies.
You are in denile.
According to X-fire, the game topped out at #4 on 9-24 less than a week after it released, it held steady at number 5 for a couple weeks and then yesterday dropped to 6th although today it's back up to 5th. That's not good for a game that has been out for less than a month. If the game was seeing a steady increase in play time, then that would be reason for optimism, but a decline in numbers less than a month from release indicates that it's not gaining momentum, rather it's losing it from a strong launch. AoC did about the same thing when it was released, hovered around the top 5-10 for the first month, but has since dropped like a stone to #34.
Check out Amazon.com and look at the top games. It's number 11 on the list. They sold about a 1/2 million copies either pre-release or in the first couple days and then topped out at around 750 thousand copies sold. It's slipping week to week.
It started out on Gamerankings.com with a score of around 91 which is very close to WoW's score, but since it has dropped to 87.3. That's still VERY good, but DaOC had a better score and LOTRO was very close.
I'm sorry that this is hard for you to swallow. It must be very frustrating. It's very much like when Warhammer 40K, Dawn of War was released for me. I LOVED the game and told everyone I knew how great it was and that they should all get it, but very few people did. I've bought all the expansions and have told everyone I can that it's a great game, but unfortunately it just never caught on like some other games that were inferior to it in my opinion. It still has many loyal customers including myself, but it's never had the success I thought it deserved. I love the Warhammer universe and I really did want War to do well. My desire to play WoW has waned from what it was a year ago and I truly have been looking for a good alternative, but it has not materialized. I tried Tabula Rasa. I tried Guild Wars. I tried LOTRO. I attempted to try AoC, but I could never get into the beta nor could I ever get a trial key from anyone (is that even working yet?). And now I've tried War. I thought enough of the beta to purchase the game and if WoTLK was not coming out next month I probably would have renewed for another month, but from what I have seen WoW is still the better product and since it has such a HUGE lead as far as subscriptions go, the other games just haven't been able to make a dent.
I have been playing games with a group of about 10 guys for about the last 5 years or so. I did manage to convince 1 guy to give War a try. He got into the beta with me and quit playing it in like 2 days and went back to WoW saying it wasn't as good. I couldn't convince any of the rest of the guys to even try it. For whatever reason, there just isn't a whole lot of interest in the game. Perhaps that's because people are waiting for WoTLK. Perhaps it's because after 4 years of WoW people are a little burned out on MMO's and looking for something different. I don't know, I only know that it's not catching on. That's not because it's a bad game, but it might be because it's not a better game than WoW. Why should I play a game that none of my friends are playing, when I can return to the game that they all are playing?
I'm not spreading lies. You are ignoring the facts.
Ok so we have this one guy in this thread that has been bashing WAR with an obsession that borders on Psycotic, then on the 20th page he asks " Where in WAR do NPCs fight each other?" Then after being corrected he playes it off with an oh ya followup. NPCs fight each other withn minutes of logging in in all 3 pairings 1st chapter, and its so in your face that you can not miss its significance. Personally I like both WoW and WAR , plus a few other games...but this guy,is full of crap and all his bashing losses its validaty, it was obvious in his first post that there was some at the least , stretching of the truth, but dude, to be this dishonost is just ...psycotic.
Oh ya which game was it that you downloaded patch 3.0.2 in last night ?
You have a point. I did completely screw up that whole NPC thing. But I was being brutally honest when I said I did miss the whole significance of it. And you're right, I was a little embarrassed to even admit that I had a total brain meltdown on that point. I did however concede that I made a mistake.
However I never even mentioned this in my original post and I've never made a point of this in any of my arguments, so it doesn't invalidate what I said originally, nor does it invalidate anything else I have said. I made a mistake, I admit that. A foolish one at that. But that doesn't make me dishonest, nor does it make me psychotic. You win this point. Care to debate any of the other numerous points I have made?
Trying to find one MMO that perfectly answers every need you have in a game is your first mistake. Utopia is only a book.
Who said anything about finding one MMO that pefectly answers every need? I'm simply looking for the best overall MMO. For me that's still WoW. War did a decent job with the PvP side, but then so did WoW. WoW did a much better job with the PvE side. When you consider all things, WoW is better.
You are in denile. According to X-fire, the game topped out at #4 on 9-24 less than a week after it released, it held steady at number 5 for a couple weeks and then yesterday dropped to 6th although today it's back up to 5th. That's not good for a game that has been out for less than a month. If the game was seeing a steady increase in play time, then that would be reason for optimism, but a decline in numbers less than a month from release indicates that it's not gaining momentum, rather it's losing it from a strong launch. AoC did about the same thing when it was released, hovered around the top 5-10 for the first month, but has since dropped like a stone to #34. http://www.xfire.com/genre/mmo/massively_multiplayer_online/ Check out Amazon.com and look at the top games. It's number 11 on the list. They sold about a 1/2 million copies either pre-release or in the first couple days and then topped out at around 750 thousand copies sold. It's slipping week to week. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/12508701/ref=pd_ts_zbw_vg_12508701_more?&pf_rd_p=302739501&pf_rd_s=right-4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=229575&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=120JH4ZJ6ATPSH1S746W It started out on Gamerankings.com with a score of around 91 which is very close to WoW's score, but since it has dropped to 87.3. That's still VERY good, but DaOC had a better score and LOTRO was very close. http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpleratings.asp I'm sorry that this is hard for you to swallow. It must be very frustrating. It's very much like when Warhammer 40K, Dawn of War was released for me. I LOVED the game and told everyone I knew how great it was and that they should all get it, but very few people did. I've bought all the expansions and have told everyone I can that it's a great game, but unfortunately it just never caught on like some other games that were inferior to it in my opinion. It still has many loyal customers including myself, but it's never had the success I thought it deserved. I love the Warhammer universe and I really did want War to do well. My desire to play WoW has waned from what it was a year ago and I truly have been looking for a good alternative, but it has not materialized. I tried Tabula Rasa. I tried Guild Wars. I tried LOTRO. I attempted to try AoC, but I could never get into the beta nor could I ever get a trial key from anyone (is that even working yet?). And now I've tried War. I thought enough of the beta to purchase the game and if WoTLK was not coming out next month I probably would have renewed for another month, but from what I have seen WoW is still the better product and since it has such a HUGE lead as far as subscriptions go, the other games just haven't been able to make a dent. I have been playing games with a group of about 10 guys for about the last 5 years or so. I did manage to convince 1 guy to give War a try. He got into the beta with me and quit playing it in like 2 days and went back to WoW saying it wasn't as good. I couldn't convince any of the rest of the guys to even try it. For whatever reason, there just isn't a whole lot of interest in the game. Perhaps that's because people are waiting for WoTLK. Perhaps it's because after 4 years of WoW people are a little burned out on MMO's and looking for something different. I don't know, I only know that it's not catching on. That's not because it's a bad game, but it might be because it's not a better game than WoW. Why should I play a game that none of my friends are playing, when I can return to the game that they all are playing? I'm not spreading lies. You are ignoring the facts. That's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Pappy13: You should really look at the data you just showed me. And just to be clear - the discussion is not whether WAR will surpass WoW in subscription numbers since this is something no one knows anything about - the discussion is moot. This is about whether WAR has had a successfull launch so far.
You said that the launch had failed and that WAR will end up as AoC and that this is supported by objective data. I am telling you that this might be your hope but that there is no data to support it.
Ask yourself the following questions and answer honestly (without numbers):
- Will a newly launched game sell alot in the first week of sales and then sell slightly less in the weeks later to then reach some sort of steady state (X number of new sales per week) with a slight decline per time unit?
- Will Y% of a population that buys the game stop playing it within a pretty short time of purchase (do not like it, performs poorly on their machine etc)?
- Will every game with loyal customer have a loss of these customers of Z% per time-unit (played it enough even if they enjoyed it) - attrition?
If you answer yes*3 above (which I know you will) you will get a game activity that spikes the first week or so, declines rather sharply after that. The decline will then continue but start to flatten out until X>Z and the game actually grows from there.
So this is 100% predictable. This is exactly the WAR curve on X-fire. And now WAR is growing on X-fire again which is exactly in accordance with the above numbers.
Hence - your statements are close to 100% wrong, and nor you nor I can predict what the future holds for the game (how big it will be and so on). All we can say is that the launch has been very succesfull and that your statements in your subscription posts are factually wrong and a mirror of your personal views and bias.
Regarding your other posts regarding amazon and gamerankings I cannot comment on them. Game rankings are very bad at predicting how well a game fares unless the score is very low (when there is a correlation to poor performance). How predictable Amazon is I do not know - do you have data that says how Amazon numbers translate to long-term success of a game?
Pappy13: You should really look at the data you just showed me. I have. And just to be clear - the discussion is not whether WAR will surpass WoW in subscription numbers since this is something no one knows anything about - the discussion is moot. This is about whether WAR has had a successfull launch so far. You said that the launch had failed Actually I didn't. I said that it would be about as successful as AoC, but not as successful as LOTRO. If you interpret that as failure, then your comment is correct, but that's not what I said. and that WAR will end up as AoC and that this is supported by objective data. I am telling you that this might be your hope but that there is no data to support it. Ask yourself the following questions and answer honestly (without numbers): LOL. You mean I should ignore things like FACTS and go on OPINIONS? - Will a newly launched game sell alot in the first week of sales and then sell slightly less in the weeks later to then reach some sort of steady state (X number of new sales per week) with a slight decline per time unit? Depends on a lot of things. It depends on how much it sells the first week. If it sells something like 3.5 million in the first week, then yes you would expect to see a drop off after that. If on the other hand it sells like 1/2 million in the first week, I wouldn't expect quite as much of a drop off. In that case I would expect it to remain pretty steady thinking that it just didn't quite have the marketing muscle behind it to start with but should do well word of mouth. If it's going to sell a few million copies, then it better do it within the first couple months of release or else the chances that it ever will are slim and none. - Will Y% of a population that buys the game stop playing it within a pretty short time of purchase (do not like it, performs poorly on their machine etc)? Yes. However the number of people that purchase the game and begin playing AFTER the initial week should FAR EXCEED this number if you expect the game to do well. If the number of people quitting the game exceeds the number starting to play, you DON'T have a hit on your hands. - Will every game with loyal customer have a loss of these customers of Z% per time-unit (played it enough even if they enjoyed it) - attrition? No, not EVERY game will. WoW hasn't. It has continued to increase it's subscribers for 4 consecutive years running despite the fact that many people have quit playing. How is this possible? It's because the number of new subscriptions EXCEEDS the number of losses. If you answer yes*3 above (which I know you will) Wrong. So this is 100% predictable. For your average game. A game that is a huge success will be different. This is exactly the WAR curve on X-fire. Hence, it's an average game. And now WAR is growing on X-fire again which is exactly in accordance with the above numbers. Where do you see that? It's never gone higher than #4 which it did in the first week. It's stayed at #5 and dropped to #6 at times. Hence - your statements are close to 100% wrong, and nor you nor I can predict what the future holds for the game (how big it will be and so on). I disagree. My statements are NOT 100% wrong. While I can't predict a sudden upturn in subscriptions won't happen, I think it's unlikely given everything we know at this point. All we can say is that the launch has been very succesfull. Depends on what they were shooting for. If they were shooting for 750,000 sales and retaining maybe 500,000 of those subscriptions passed the first month, then they'll probably hit those numbers or close to it. That's about what LOTRO did. That's about what AoC did. LOTRO has managed to keep those numbers fairly well. AoC, not so well. and that your statements in your subscription posts are factually wrong and a mirror of your personal views and bias. Which FACTS are wrong? All you've done here is talk hypothetically. Please show me one statistic that you believe is FACTUALLY wrong. Regarding your other posts regarding amazon and gamerankings I cannot comment on them. Game rankings are very bad at predicting how well a game fares unless the score is very low (when there is a correlation to poor performance). Wrong. A SINGLE review is a very poor indicator, however when you average ALL the game reviews like GameRankings.com does, you actually get a very good indicator of a games overall success. WoW had the highest average rating of all the reviews when it was released and it also turned out to be the most successful. Pure coincidence? Possibly. It's also possible the the majority of reviewers saw the same qualities that millions of paying subscribers have seen. How predictable Amazon is I do not know - do you have data that says how Amazon numbers translate to long-term success of a game? No because that's NOT what Amazon shows. What Amazon shows is how popular a game is compared to the rest of the games available at the time. It's not looking at long term success, it's looking at relative popularity at a point in time. Games that are new tend to be popular, but then lose popularity over time. The good ones maintain a fairly high level of popularity for a longer period of time, say 2 or 3 months. WoW's popularity has remained high for 4 years. AoC's lasted about a week. The fact that War has slipped to #11 in less than a month does not bode well for it.
What does it matter? Anarchy Online have managed to survive a million doomsayers and so did SWG from all those nge-haters. I suspect WAR's playerbase is alot bigger than both of those combined. Let the people that like it, play it and stop toying with meaningless numbers and statistics. Seriously, you're all starting to sound like politicians bending words at eachother soon Oh, and about how dead the game is. The rvr scene is getting more and more active now that people is finished with their dinging. Both servers I play on got quite some activity at it at both sides. It stands to reason alot of people have left after their free month but it feels like alot of people have joined aswell cause the servers I play on is as active now as when I got the game some 3 weeks ago.
i m finding warhammer is everything warcraft is nt when it comes to pvp . its a lot of fun . personally i like both games . with warhammer i dont see the point of staying in warcraft when i get bored i ll just alternate between the two . its the only real competition to wow and its far superior in lots of ways . if you ve not tried warhammer yet . i would wait for the free trial which will come out just as you ve played out all the new lich king content early next spring . load up warhammer see it for yourself .then watch how warcrafts subs drop by a couple of million through 2009 as todays warcraft players see what thier missing and do what i m doing start playing both in turns .
warhammers here to stay . its good and its a viable alternative to warcraft .
Comments
Pappy - at least be honest enough that 'no dungeons to speak of' is much less than the list I provided - and hence you were misinformed.
Sorry but I disagree. 2 dungeons half way thru the game just isn't enough. We can quibble about the wording all we want, but the general idea still stands. The game is lacking in PvE, including the number of dungeons.
If you are playing WAR for PVE then I am confused. Did anyone play DAOC for PVE? Don't mean that to sound harsh but I don't go to McDonald's for fried chicken... I go to KFC or Popeye's.
I'll give you fanboyism, but not ignorance. I don't comment on things I know nothing about. I played War for over a month. That's enough time to form an opinion on the game. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I wasn't ignorant on the subject matter. I don't have to know exactly how many dungeons are in the game to know it's not enough when you hit level 20 of 40 and you've only seen 1 dungeon.
And by the way, some of the reply's I've seen have been incorrect or at the very least less than completely accurate. I've tried salvaging just normal greens and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I don't know what the problem is but Talisman making is a joke of a profession. And I was right about the emotes, they are sorry. Try comparing emotes in War to just about any other game and they are terrible. Most have no animation. Most have no sound. It simply says "so and so yells". Well whoop de freakin' do! There's no dancing, yeah I know, it's all about the war and there's no dancing in war. Don't these people celebrate a victory?
Sorry, but the game just lacks a lot of stuff that is expected in an MMO. Don't believe me though, just look at the indicators. Sales of the game have slowed. XFIRE numbers are dropping. Recent reviews have been tougher on the game. Subscription numbers will be coming out soon and it's not looking good. It's gonna do about as well as AoC did, maybe a bit better, but that's it. It's not even gonna do as well as LOTRO. Mythic didn't knock the ball out of the park. They took a swing and they fouled it off. It could have been so much better especially coming from a developer that already had 1 MMO under their belt.
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
And when I'm choosing ONE restaraunt for ALL my dining needs, I pick one that has a breakfast, lunch and dinner menu, not one that just serves breakfast.
Pappy13: You know I really played WoW for a long time and give the game alot of credit. It is the kind of nonsense above that scares me from someone that praises himself to be objective.
Just like anyone could predict X-fire numbers grew like mad in the early days of WAR release. After that there has been a decline since some players do not like the game and the players that do play the game play slightly less than in the first 2 weeks of crazy ranking up.
After that there has been a steady inflow of players and now the X-fire numbers are growing again after release on a week-to-week comparison basis.
All of this is as expected after a massive release (it is exactly how numbers would play out if you would model it). When someone then states that 'sales have slowed', 'X-fire numbers are dropping' etc without any reasoning to back it up it is borderline ignorant.
My hope is that both WAR and WoW will become strong brands in the market. WoW already is. So far WAR is delivering exactly what you can expect from a game that will become a strong brand. What the coming months will show is unknown however.
Stop spreading lies.
Pappy13: You know I really played WoW for a long time and give the game alot of credit. It is the kind of nonsense above that scares me from someone that praises himself to be objective.
Just like anyone could predict X-fire numbers grew like mad in the early days of WAR release. After that there has been a decline since some players do not like the game and the players that do play the game play slightly less than in the first 2 weeks of crazy ranking up.
After that there has been a steady inflow of players and now the X-fire numbers are growing again after release on a week-to-week comparison basis.
All of this is as expected after a massive release (it is exactly how numbers would play out if you would model it). When someone then states that 'sales have slowed', 'X-fire numbers are dropping' etc without any reasoning to back it up it is borderline ignorant.
My hope is that both WAR and WoW will become strong brands in the market. WoW already is. So far WAR is delivering exactly what you can expect from a game that will become a strong brand. What the coming months will show is unknown however.
Stop spreading lies.
You are in denile.
According to X-fire, the game topped out at #4 on 9-24 less than a week after it released, it held steady at number 5 for a couple weeks and then yesterday dropped to 6th although today it's back up to 5th. That's not good for a game that has been out for less than a month. If the game was seeing a steady increase in play time, then that would be reason for optimism, but a decline in numbers less than a month from release indicates that it's not gaining momentum, rather it's losing it from a strong launch. AoC did about the same thing when it was released, hovered around the top 5-10 for the first month, but has since dropped like a stone to #34.
http://www.xfire.com/genre/mmo/massively_multiplayer_online/
Check out Amazon.com and look at the top games. It's number 11 on the list. They sold about a 1/2 million copies either pre-release or in the first couple days and then topped out at around 750 thousand copies sold. It's slipping week to week.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/12508701/ref=pd_ts_zbw_vg_12508701_more?&pf_rd_p=302739501&pf_rd_s=right-4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=229575&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=120JH4ZJ6ATPSH1S746W
It started out on Gamerankings.com with a score of around 91 which is very close to WoW's score, but since it has dropped to 87.3. That's still VERY good, but DaOC had a better score and LOTRO was very close.
http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpleratings.asp
I'm sorry that this is hard for you to swallow. It must be very frustrating. It's very much like when Warhammer 40K, Dawn of War was released for me. I LOVED the game and told everyone I knew how great it was and that they should all get it, but very few people did. I've bought all the expansions and have told everyone I can that it's a great game, but unfortunately it just never caught on like some other games that were inferior to it in my opinion. It still has many loyal customers including myself, but it's never had the success I thought it deserved. I love the Warhammer universe and I really did want War to do well. My desire to play WoW has waned from what it was a year ago and I truly have been looking for a good alternative, but it has not materialized. I tried Tabula Rasa. I tried Guild Wars. I tried LOTRO. I attempted to try AoC, but I could never get into the beta nor could I ever get a trial key from anyone (is that even working yet?). And now I've tried War. I thought enough of the beta to purchase the game and if WoTLK was not coming out next month I probably would have renewed for another month, but from what I have seen WoW is still the better product and since it has such a HUGE lead as far as subscriptions go, the other games just haven't been able to make a dent.
I have been playing games with a group of about 10 guys for about the last 5 years or so. I did manage to convince 1 guy to give War a try. He got into the beta with me and quit playing it in like 2 days and went back to WoW saying it wasn't as good. I couldn't convince any of the rest of the guys to even try it. For whatever reason, there just isn't a whole lot of interest in the game. Perhaps that's because people are waiting for WoTLK. Perhaps it's because after 4 years of WoW people are a little burned out on MMO's and looking for something different. I don't know, I only know that it's not catching on. That's not because it's a bad game, but it might be because it's not a better game than WoW. Why should I play a game that none of my friends are playing, when I can return to the game that they all are playing?
I'm not spreading lies. You are ignoring the facts.
That's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
You have a point. I did completely screw up that whole NPC thing. But I was being brutally honest when I said I did miss the whole significance of it. And you're right, I was a little embarrassed to even admit that I had a total brain meltdown on that point. I did however concede that I made a mistake.
However I never even mentioned this in my original post and I've never made a point of this in any of my arguments, so it doesn't invalidate what I said originally, nor does it invalidate anything else I have said. I made a mistake, I admit that. A foolish one at that. But that doesn't make me dishonest, nor does it make me psychotic. You win this point. Care to debate any of the other numerous points I have made?
Trying to find one MMO that perfectly answers every need you have in a game is your first mistake. Utopia is only a book.
Who said anything about finding one MMO that pefectly answers every need? I'm simply looking for the best overall MMO. For me that's still WoW. War did a decent job with the PvP side, but then so did WoW. WoW did a much better job with the PvE side. When you consider all things, WoW is better.
Pappy13: You should really look at the data you just showed me. And just to be clear - the discussion is not whether WAR will surpass WoW in subscription numbers since this is something no one knows anything about - the discussion is moot. This is about whether WAR has had a successfull launch so far.
You said that the launch had failed and that WAR will end up as AoC and that this is supported by objective data. I am telling you that this might be your hope but that there is no data to support it.
Ask yourself the following questions and answer honestly (without numbers):
- Will a newly launched game sell alot in the first week of sales and then sell slightly less in the weeks later to then reach some sort of steady state (X number of new sales per week) with a slight decline per time unit?
- Will Y% of a population that buys the game stop playing it within a pretty short time of purchase (do not like it, performs poorly on their machine etc)?
- Will every game with loyal customer have a loss of these customers of Z% per time-unit (played it enough even if they enjoyed it) - attrition?
If you answer yes*3 above (which I know you will) you will get a game activity that spikes the first week or so, declines rather sharply after that. The decline will then continue but start to flatten out until X>Z and the game actually grows from there.
So this is 100% predictable. This is exactly the WAR curve on X-fire. And now WAR is growing on X-fire again which is exactly in accordance with the above numbers.
Hence - your statements are close to 100% wrong, and nor you nor I can predict what the future holds for the game (how big it will be and so on). All we can say is that the launch has been very succesfull and that your statements in your subscription posts are factually wrong and a mirror of your personal views and bias.
Regarding your other posts regarding amazon and gamerankings I cannot comment on them. Game rankings are very bad at predicting how well a game fares unless the score is very low (when there is a correlation to poor performance). How predictable Amazon is I do not know - do you have data that says how Amazon numbers translate to long-term success of a game?
What does it matter? Anarchy Online have managed to survive a million doomsayers and so did SWG from all those nge-haters. I suspect WAR's playerbase is alot bigger than both of those combined. Let the people that like it, play it and stop toying with meaningless numbers and statistics. Seriously, you're all starting to sound like politicians bending words at eachother soon
Oh, and about how dead the game is. The rvr scene is getting more and more active now that people is finished with their dinging. Both servers I play on got quite some activity at it at both sides. It stands to reason alot of people have left after their free month but it feels like alot of people have joined aswell cause the servers I play on is as active now as when I got the game some 3 weeks ago.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
1 week later and the game has dropped to #8 on Xfire...
http://www.xfire.com/games/who/Warhammer_Online_Age_of_Reckoning/
and dropped to #14 on Amazon...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/12508701/ref=pd_ts_zbw_vg_12508701_more?&pf_rd_p=302739501&pf_rd_s=right-4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=229575&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=120JH4ZJ6ATPSH1S746W
i m finding warhammer is everything warcraft is nt when it comes to pvp . its a lot of fun . personally i like both games . with warhammer i dont see the point of staying in warcraft when i get bored i ll just alternate between the two . its the only real competition to wow and its far superior in lots of ways . if you ve not tried warhammer yet . i would wait for the free trial which will come out just as you ve played out all the new lich king content early next spring . load up warhammer see it for yourself .then watch how warcrafts subs drop by a couple of million through 2009 as todays warcraft players see what thier missing and do what i m doing start playing both in turns .
warhammers here to stay . its good and its a viable alternative to warcraft .
Warhammer doesnt' really have anything WoW doesn't now.
WoW has an achievement system which I like better than WARs and doesn't require kill 25, 100, 1000 of this, and get a token.
It also will have the queue anywhere deal once the expansion comes out, which were two really good features of WAR.