I am still going to give the game a try...sounds better than anything that has released in a while and I am burnt out on what is out right now. Still waiting on Star Wars though. When I read OP's thread it sounds to me like you are burnt out on mmorpg's in general.
lmao.. this again... always this. Look, reading the actual thread saves repitition, just some advice. I am just gonna post this again. it might not apply directly to you, but I am sure you will get it;
lol AGAIN with this... i talked about exactly this a few posts back when I said 'Why do people keep playing this tactic? Why is everyone who dosent buy into Rift, according to the fans, 'bored with' or have a 'problem with' MMORPGs?"
If I don't like Rifts i must be sick of MMOs... it can't be this specific game... right?
I will just repost what I said then, if thats ok?
"I am obviously talking about one single game here in my OP, a game that i address on it's own specific merits and shortfalls, yet again and again this card is pulled on me (and others that don't buy into the Rift train), no matter how calm or reasonable we are."
As I also said I am now duoing through GW (for the first time, really enjoying it) and looking forward to Arche Age as hopefully a long term game home.
No, I am not burnt out on the genre, this game just fails to meet what i want in a game that I want to buy/ sub to/ to invest my time in.
it really is that simple.
Well, just like YOU I am allowed to say what I want. And to ME when I read your post, it sounds like you are tired of the MMO genre. I do not care to go back and read your posts from before sorry. Now instead of trolling posts because your butthurt I think it is time for you to move on.
lol look at the attacks again... you guys... o.0
How was I trolling you? By explaining, again, how what you assumed my view on games was right now was wrong and telling you I was actually enjoying a game right now?
You can think what you like I guess, but when someone explains clearly thats not how they are feeling and gives me evidence to back it up, I personally tend to listen. Not get angry.
Anybody with half a brain would never base their decision on buying and trying a game on a post in a video game forum. For this reason, I think it's an complete waste of your time to write paragraphs upon paragraphs dicussing something that is completely subjective. Why is there 14 pages of people complaining about what Rift is or isn't to them? Nobody truly cares except yourself, since you are the one trying to be entertained. Nothing will be accomplished with this thread because there truly is no point to it, its more along the lines of something that should be posted on the comment section after cancelling your subscription for the devs to read (if there is a place like that). The responses you recieved are what I would expect and what you should have expected, people disagreeing. Thats all that this thread will ever amount to..it's pointless. Nothing here is an objective fact about the game such as it not working or the UI is so buggy it's not usable, it's all subjective "I don't enjoy this kind of thing" type of stuff. Who should care? What are you trying to accomplish with this thread? It's our money, and our tastes may be different, why should we listen to your opinion of fun and accept it as our own?
The OP is not urging anyone to agree with him and he is very clear in saying that he is voicing his opinion along with the observations from his experience with the game so far. People have opinions and voice them on forums. What you and many others are doing is directly attacking him for having a different opinion than your own and that is kinda pathetic in my opinion. If you like the game yourself there is nothing to be so angsty about right?
The guy has played two beta's and spent quite some time in the game. He sure as hell has a right to voice his opinions and share his observations and they sure as hell are useful for some of us here. At least to me they are.
Useful to you how? just curious. I agree that the OP made his point, but were you really on the fence about seriously looking into Rift? The answer is no. We can read your other posts my friend. You're looking forward to Tera and taking a thirty second look at Rift would tell you that the two games are not alike. In fact your mind was basically made up with the whole garbage thread (i'm not saing your post was garbage) about Rift being WAR repackaged. So, it's odd that this thread would have some information that you'd find interesting- when in fact you'd already decided that this game was not for you.
Yeah I have tested beta 1 to 4 and have to say not for me, far to easy and boring same old all the time. But I am sure it will sell bucket loads of them and do okay, doubt it's a Wow killer, infact it's even easier than Wow.
You must be hard to please.
Every post you've made that I've looked at has been negative. Whether it has to deal with Rift, Star Wars w/e doesn't matter.
I have followed this game for a long time, and in my head made rationalised the growing unease from the road I have seen it take, but finally it's time to admit that it's not for me and move on. I just wanted to share my thoughts on it before I go.
I have played this enough now (4 betas, L27 on both sides) to know this game isnt for me, but I will give it credit for being a decent, working, nice looking MMORPG. I do despair though when a game's main selling point is 'it works' though tbh, but that aside...
The game, to me, is just a bit boring. Even for a MMORPG, which can specialise in being boring at times as we all know.
It is, imo, a game that lacks ambition or reach, one that is happy to settle for the mundane. It is small (world wise), narrow (vision wise), derivative, uninspired (design wise), and extremely linear. It is lacking severly in 'fluff' (which is extremely important imo) in any aspect that would elevate it above it's quest grind foundations. It's quests are dull and consist mainly of 'kill X' (with a couple of notable exceptions). It's dungeons are tiny and limited, with only the Iron tombs standing out so far as a better then average experience.
I have played through, like I say, to 27 now on both sides, including have done the 4 small linear instanced dungeons that you get to run by this time, and I honestly don't see the long term play in Rift for me. I would honestly be done with whats on offer in my first month... and what then? PvP at 50 for 4-8 months until we see more content dropped in? No thanks.
Even if I was a raider, the end game (grinding the retooled and slightly expanded dungeons you have already run repeatedly in the game for gear in two tiers to get ready to grind the raid instances for more gear), probably wouldnt appeal to me personally.
The rift system iteself has also let me down. It is simply a random spawning of mobs to zerg... they look lovely the first time you see them, sure, but by the second beta I was skirting around them, bored of the zerg play and pew pew pissing contest. They had become a nuiscance, and as for them changing the world (the 'dynamic' content so touted)... well, they don't, not for any time anyhow. They spawn, they hang around for a little while, they despawn, the world goes back to how it was. Very dissapointing in their effect and scope tbh.
There is no depth or real personality to this game... The character customisation and itemisation is severely lacking (defiants and guardians have the same armour lines, most of which is pretty ugly imo), and it's like a clone zerg 90% of the time as people swarm along the quest paths or towards a rift. It would be funny if it wasnt so sad.
It feels like a treadmill as soon as you log in, and by 27 that hasnt changed. It mollycoddles and spoonfeeds all the way through, it asks for very little off the player (which is why it will probably be huge with the casual crowd).
But... despite all this... the game runs well, looks good in it's environments (I am not a fan of the character models tho tbh... a strange hybrid of Aion and AoC that dosent work for me), and does what it says on the tin- it is a 100% themepark questgrinder. It is very competent and workmanlike, just very boring for me.
With regards to this game being 'next gen'.. no, it just isnt. It really is just the end product of the last generation. It has taken the exisiting model that we know so well and polished it to a minimalist sheen, offering just enough glitz and play to sell it at launch (and then leaving the devs to panic about how to retain players past month 1).
All just my opinions ofc.
Despite all In have said, I don't hate the game and I actually wish it well. More games out there to choose from the better imo and if a certain section of players enjoys it, fair enough. I will wait and see how Arche Age turns out personally.
Much to my own regret I agree with what you say. I only played to around level 20, but my impression is essentially the same as yours. It's fun for a while, but the lack of any evoked feeling is the overall impression Rift left on me. I can't even put my finger exactly on whats lacking, but I feel it clearly.
I think the game is in the AoC-category: fun at first, but losing appeal fast.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Anybody with half a brain would never base their decision on buying and trying a game on a post in a video game forum. For this reason, I think it's an complete waste of your time to write paragraphs upon paragraphs dicussing something that is completely subjective. Why is there 14 pages of people complaining about what Rift is or isn't to them? Nobody truly cares except yourself, since you are the one trying to be entertained. Nothing will be accomplished with this thread because there truly is no point to it, its more along the lines of something that should be posted on the comment section after cancelling your subscription for the devs to read (if there is a place like that). The responses you recieved are what I would expect and what you should have expected, people disagreeing. Thats all that this thread will ever amount to..it's pointless. Nothing here is an objective fact about the game such as it not working or the UI is so buggy it's not usable, it's all subjective "I don't enjoy this kind of thing" type of stuff. Who should care? What are you trying to accomplish with this thread? It's our money, and our tastes may be different, why should we listen to your opinion of fun and accept it as our own?
The OP is not urging anyone to agree with him and he is very clear in saying that he is voicing his opinion along with the observations from his experience with the game so far. People have opinions and voice them on forums. What you and many others are doing is directly attacking him for having a different opinion than your own and that is kinda pathetic in my opinion. If you like the game yourself there is nothing to be so angsty about right?
The guy has played two beta's and spent quite some time in the game. He sure as hell has a right to voice his opinions and share his observations and they sure as hell are useful for some of us here. At least to me they are.
Useful to you how? just curious. I agree that the OP made his point, but were you really on the fence about seriously looking into Rift? The answer is no. We can read your other posts my friend. You're looking forward to Tera and taking a thirty second look at Rift would tell you that the two games are not alike. In fact your mind was basically made up with the whole garbage thread (i'm not saing your post was garbage) about Rift being WAR repackaged. So, it's odd that this thread would have some information that you'd find interesting- when in fact you'd already decided that this game was not for you.
So, after falsely accusing someone of trying to put his opinion in other people's minds you are now stepping it up a notch to determining people's opinions for them? Well done.
Also you are somehow imposing the short sighted belief that someone liking one kind of game automatically dislikes any other kind on me V_V
Keep those restrictive views to yourself please. I've enjoyed and played both WOW and EVE Online for years to give you an example. While they are very different they were both very good games in my book.
Also if you would look a bit closer at the date stamps on my posts, you'd notice that I haven't been posting in the Rift and Tera forums for long. I've been looking into and forming opinions on both these games only in the past week or so. And it is exactly posts like the OP's which helped me form an initial opinion to postpone jumping into this game and give it a long, hard stare from the fence for a while first. Especially stuff I read about the world feeling cramped and following a linear trajectory has alarm bells ringing here; I intensely disliked that in WAR and AOC for instance.
Posts like your own sadly aren't helping anyone as all you seem to do is making things personal rather than giving point by point feedback or writing down your own opinion in a consise manner like the OP has done. Try to be constructive in the discusion and lets keep it on topic please.
Anybody with half a brain would never base their decision on buying and trying a game on a post in a video game forum. For this reason, I think it's an complete waste of your time to write paragraphs upon paragraphs dicussing something that is completely subjective. Why is there 14 pages of people complaining about what Rift is or isn't to them? Nobody truly cares except yourself, since you are the one trying to be entertained. Nothing will be accomplished with this thread because there truly is no point to it, its more along the lines of something that should be posted on the comment section after cancelling your subscription for the devs to read (if there is a place like that). The responses you recieved are what I would expect and what you should have expected, people disagreeing. Thats all that this thread will ever amount to..it's pointless. Nothing here is an objective fact about the game such as it not working or the UI is so buggy it's not usable, it's all subjective "I don't enjoy this kind of thing" type of stuff. Who should care? What are you trying to accomplish with this thread? It's our money, and our tastes may be different, why should we listen to your opinion of fun and accept it as our own?
The OP is not urging anyone to agree with him and he is very clear in saying that he is voicing his opinion along with the observations from his experience with the game so far. People have opinions and voice them on forums. What you and many others are doing is directly attacking him for having a different opinion than your own and that is kinda pathetic in my opinion. If you like the game yourself there is nothing to be so angsty about right?
The guy has played two beta's and spent quite some time in the game. He sure as hell has a right to voice his opinions and share his observations and they sure as hell are useful for some of us here. At least to me they are.
Useful to you how? just curious. I agree that the OP made his point, but were you really on the fence about seriously looking into Rift? The answer is no. We can read your other posts my friend. You're looking forward to Tera and taking a thirty second look at Rift would tell you that the two games are not alike. In fact your mind was basically made up with the whole garbage thread (i'm not saing your post was garbage) about Rift being WAR repackaged. So, it's odd that this thread would have some information that you'd find interesting- when in fact you'd already decided that this game was not for you.
So, after falsely accusing someone of trying to put his opinion in other people's minds you are now stepping it up a notch to determining people's opinions for them? Well done.
Also you are somehow imposing the short sighted belief that someone liking one kind of game automatically dislikes any other kind on me V_V
Keep those restrictive views to yourself please. I've enjoyed and played both WOW and EVE Online for years to give you an example. While they are very different they were both very good games in my book.
Also if you would look a bit closer at the date stamps on my posts, you'd notice that I haven't been posting in the Rift and Tera forums for long. I've been looking into and forming opinions on both these games only in the past week or so. And it is exactly posts like the OP's which helped me form an initial opinion to postpone jumping into this game and give it a long, hard stare from the fence for a while first. Especially stuff I read about the world feeling cramped and following a linear trajectory has alarm bells ringing here; I intensely disliked that in WAR and AOC for instance.
Posts like your own sadly aren't helping anyone as all you seem to do is making things personal rather than giving point by point feedback or writing down your own opinion in a consise manner like the OP has done. Try to be constructive in the discusion and lets keep it on topic please.
Falsely accusing someone? you have me confused with another poster. My point was that you already got this information from another thread. You responded about the whole linear thing in that thread. Yet to make your point you acted like you had never heard this information before for whatever reason, when you had. That was the point of my post. You pretended that the OP gave you information that you already didn't know to form an opinion. The truth is you already had an opinion that you agree with the OP. To give it more weight you pretended to not know this information, as if you came to this thread unsure about what Rift was and was enlightened by that post.
Falsely accusing someone? you have me confused with another poster. My point was that you already got this information from another thread. You responded about the whole linear thing in that thread. Yet to make your point you acted like you had never heard this information before for whatever reason, when you had. That was the point of my post. You pretended that the OP gave you information that you already didn't know to form an opinion. The truth is you already had an opinion that you agree with the OP. To give it more weight you pretended to not know this information, as if you came to this thread unsure about what Rift was and was enlightened by that post.
Oops, yeah I thought LauZaIM had responded to my post to him but it was you. My apologies.
Anyway, the rest of my reply stands. I told you exactly what it is: I've been shaping my opinion in the past days by posts like the OP's: concise, informative descriptions of game experiences. If you want to make some kind of witch hunt for "haters with an agenda" out of this and fool yourself in the process; be my guest. I couldn't care less.
Let's get down to the real reason why the OP is getting attacked. People are defending Rift. They so desperately want this game to be something it's not that they're delusional. They accept a low quality game. That's fine. What they do with their time is up to them. But I believe the OP has very solid reasons on why Rift is not for him. I don't see why people have to attack him for it. He's not putting this game under a microscope. He's not over thinking it. He's simply saying that Rift disappointed him because it wasn't what was promised. Obviously the guy has been following the game's development for quite some time. I know how that feels. I know how it feels to follow a game for years since it was announced. Then it would come up short.
Finding a home in the MMO genre is tough to do. Finding a second home is even harder. He tried Rift because that's what he was looking for. Maybe if everyone would stop attacking him and step back for a moment, you'd see that his reasons are valid.
I had your problem too buddy. I was lucky enough to find a home in Guild Wars. Good luck to you. Hope you find the game that will give you an unforgettable experience.
Its not that the OP was wrong (granted some of his reasons were so subjective they barely needed mentioning) His over all reasons were valid yet I could disagree across the board. There is no right or wrong to this (its all opinions). If you dont like the game state your reasons and move on. If you like the game state your reasons and continue.
Expect to get attacked. They want to defend the game. The fact that you took time to post can be considered in itself a form of attack (you could have simply not played and not voiced your opinions. No one asked you how you felt. You opened that door yourself, right?) . Either way the guaranteed thing that made your review bad imho is the mentioning of another game at the end of the post. It is what makes all reviews or "why I am not going to play" bad. You took a game with minimal information out about it and put it up as a shining hope (what many did with rift) and when you get your hands on it (like history has shown us time nd time again) you will be likely underwhelmed because you built up your hopes and hyped yourself into a point of unattainable goals.
Simply put if you dont want to get attacked dont hit the "POST MESSAGE" when you post reads the way it does. BTW I for one felt you had some valid reasons for not playing in your post if summarized them without the extra wall of text it could read:
I wont play this game because the leveling curve is to easy for me, I see no new content, and I have a general dislike of quest hub theme park type games.
My simple counter:
I agree except I feel the game is fun, polished, and over all I generally like theme park games.
I watched this game for awhile* and it was exactly what was promised. A high fantasy "classic" follow up to the current crop of theme park mmorpg. If anything, they've exceeded what would be expected based on what they said about the game. Anyone who thought it was going to be anything else substituted what they wanted for what Trion said would be there.
* Technically, a friend watched it for awhile. I was not initially interested in the game based on how it was described.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yeah I have tested beta 1 to 4 and have to say not for me, far to easy and boring same old all the time. But I am sure it will sell bucket loads of them and do okay, doubt it's a Wow killer, infact it's even easier than Wow.
This comment made me smile, wow isnt the zergfest it was a few months ago. I'd say there are now a lot of games that are easier than wow since cataclysm launched. In fact blizz are probably going to hemmorage players in vast droves with the new heroic dungeon difficulty.
I can see wow's casual playerbase lapping up rifts easymode playstyle (at least till the next tier of content in cataclysm arrives).
Expect to get attacked. They want to defend the game. The fact that you took time to post can be considered in itself a form of attack
Don't be ridiculous. In fact, this attitude, the one where everyone's opinion that dosent agree with yours in an 'attack', is exactly the problem with these boards. Percieving the need to 'defend' against every one that dosent like your favourite game is a siege mentality and just breeds conflict, something that you would hope most adults have grown past. I stated opinions and put them up for discussion, thats all. I wasnt rude and didnt troll. Responding in a hostile way can't be justified.
Disagree, sure, tell me why, sure, share your own opinion, sure, but aggressively attack me for having different ones? No.
Tbh, this one simple statement above made me stop reading and dismiss everything else you said out of hand, which is a shame because you may have made some decent points.
You are condoning personal attacks in a thread thats talking about a game, which to me is the opposite of what it was started for.
If people feel the need to defend the game by making personal attacks that says more about them then I, and I don't accept this attempt to shft responsibility for that on to the poster. It's just a juvenile way of thinking.
Anyhow, enough derailment of you talking about me (another juvenile way of posting), lets get back to the game and chatting about our opinions of it.
Yeah I have tested beta 1 to 4 and have to say not for me, far to easy and boring same old all the time. But I am sure it will sell bucket loads of them and do okay, doubt it's a Wow killer, infact it's even easier than Wow.
This comment made me smile, wow isnt the zergfest it was a few months ago. I'd say there are now a lot of games that are easier than wow since cataclysm launched. In fact blizz are probably going to hemmorage players in vast droves with the new heroic dungeon difficulty.
I can see wow's casual playerbase lapping up rifts easymode playstyle (at least till the next tier of content in cataclysm arrives).
I agree, this game is super casual friendly. It is mostly solo, easy to master, and requires little thinking to play, exactly the kind of virtual knitting simulator a certain section of MMOers are looking for after a day at work.
It will do very well, at least for the first 3 months, but thats the obvious business plan here anyhow so good luck to Trion.
Let's get down to the real reason why the OP is getting attacked. People are defending Rift. They so desperately want this game to be something it's not that they're delusional. They accept a low quality game. That's fine. What they do with their time is up to them. But I believe the OP has very solid reasons on why Rift is not for him. I don't see why people have to attack him for it. He's not putting this game under a microscope. He's not over thinking it. He's simply saying that Rift disappointed him because it wasn't what was promised. Obviously the guy has been following the game's development for quite some time. I know how that feels. I know how it feels to follow a game for years since it was announced. Then it would come up short.
Finding a home in the MMO genre is tough to do. Finding a second home is even harder. He tried Rift because that's what he was looking for. Maybe if everyone would stop attacking him and step back for a moment, you'd see that his reasons are valid.
I had your problem too buddy. I was lucky enough to find a home in Guild Wars. Good luck to you. Hope you find the game that will give you an unforgettable experience.
Thanks Kay
What you posted was pretty spot on, except I don't really feel like Trion 'promised' me anything, and thats really not a part of my problem with it.
My problems really lie more in what they didnt talk about... Trion wasnt exactly vocal about the lack of in game character itemisation and differentation, it wasnt exactly forthcoming about how limited rifts were, it didnt brag about it's utter lack of 'fluff', it didnt wax lyrical about how small and mundane it's dungeons were, it didnt go on about how clunky and clumsy combat would feel, it wasnt exactly forthcoming either in saying 'hey, we are making a tiny linear derivative game with no ambition that is aimed at the solo super casual player'.
In essence, a lot of my problems with Rift are based on what Trion didnt say, rather then what they did.
I agree, this game is super casual friendly. It is mostly solo, easy to master, and requires little thinking to play, exactly the kind of virtual knitting simulator a certain section of MMOers are looking for after a day at work.
I am disappointed, it took less than a day for you too cut to straight up trolling.
Expect to get attacked. They want to defend the game. The fact that you took time to post can be considered in itself a form of attack
Don't be ridiculous. In fact, this attitude, the one where everyone's opinion that dosent agree with yours in an 'attack', is exactly the problem with these boards. Percieving the need to 'defend' against every one that dosent like your favourite game is a siege mentality and just breeds conflict, something that you would hope most adults have grown past. I stated opinions and put them up for discussion, thats all. I wasnt rude and didnt troll. Responding in a hostile way can't be justified.
Disagree, sure, tell me why, sure, share your own opinion, sure, but aggressively attack me for having different ones? No.
Tbh, this one simple statement above made me stop reading and dismiss everything else you said out of hand, which is a shame because you may have made some decent points.
You are condoning personal attacks in a thread thats talking about a game, which to me is the opposite of what it was started for.
If people feel the need to defend the game by making personal attacks that says more about them then I, and I don't accept this attempt to shft responsibility for that on to the poster. It's just a juvenile way of thinking.
Anyhow, enough derailment of you talking about me (another juvenile way of posting), lets get back to the game and chatting about our opinions of it.
I am not really sure where to start with you but I will try to explain. If you were willing to read my entire post (you admit that you didn't which by the way is truly childish) you would have realized I acutally didn't feel much of what you said was wrong. Your deleivery on the other hand simply was if you didnt want to get attacked. You do it here also tossing out personal attacks of your own. You call me juvenile repeatedly yet you cant read an entire response. Even when you drone on about what you dislike whether it bothers me or not I finish reading anybody deserves that much (and it keeps you from looking like an idiot when you respond).
You have 2000+ post and you expect me to believe that you dont know the nature of these forums? You posted with the intent to fight. You know you did. Its not juvenile its the way of this forum. If you post looking for a fight you will get one. You should simply have known better. I pointed out where you went wrong but you didnt want to hear it (Childish behavior on your part). I am not condoning personal attacks but if you walk around with a target sign what do you expect. Your telling me in 2000+ post here you really dont get it? Even with 200 post I know what it looks like when your trying to start something ( I might be doing it to you right now. Its true I am aware but you deserve it..)
The best part is that I didnt go off topic I read your arguement and simplified it into something discussable and something that could not provoke a personal attack I will repost it try to read this time unless you get too mad before you get this far.
"Simply put if you dont want to get attacked dont hit the "POST MESSAGE" when you post reads the way it does. BTW I for one felt you had some valid reasons for not playing in your post if summarized them without the extra wall of text it could read:
I wont play this game because the leveling curve is to easy for me, I see no new content, and I have a general dislike of quest hub theme park type games.
My simple counter:
I agree except I feel the game is fun, polished, and over all I generally like theme park games."
I agree, this game is super casual friendly. It is mostly solo, easy to master, and requires little thinking to play, exactly the kind of virtual knitting simulator a certain section of MMOers are looking for after a day at work.
I am disappointed, it took less than a day for you too cut to straight up trolling.
Not that you were ever convincing to start with.
What exactly is he doing that results in trolling. Telling someone they were not convincing to start with IS trolling, it is baiting someone to respond in a negative manner without even staying on topic.
The OP layed out his observations about the game.
1. It is very friendly to casual players. This is true. Listen to the Podcasts, read IRC, see for yourself what the developers think.
2. You can solo most of the game if you pick the right class. I played mostly a cleric and outside of dungeons needed no help what so ever. The cleric is a class that needs some balancing thats for sure.
3. It is easy to master so far. The skills in each tree are not that unique nor are they that varied and deep. You only need a small combo set of a dps skill and two others to compliment it with buff or debuff and cc.
Good game design dictates the escalation of challenge, as well as a balance between what we call anxiety and boredom. Rift is imbalanced in its design as many are in the realm of boredom, yet none have actually crossed over to the opposite side of anxiety. I study and work with game design, so if you try to dismiss this as a "normal users" opinion, then thats your loss. Just saying.
A lot of what the OP says I agree with, however it seems that Rift has attracted one of the worst sort of gamers. The elite niche that are so fanatical about their viewpoint that no logical and rational discussion can be had about its short comings. This is a dangerous combo. It drives people away from the game, not too it.
I agree, this game is super casual friendly. It is mostly solo, easy to master, and requires little thinking to play, exactly the kind of virtual knitting simulator a certain section of MMOers are looking for after a day at work.
I am disappointed, it took less than a day for you too cut to straight up trolling.
Not that you were ever convincing to start with.
What exactly is he doing that results in trolling. Telling someone they were not convincing to start with IS trolling, it is baiting someone to respond in a negative manner without even staying on topic.
The OP layed out his observations about the game.
1. It is very friendly to casual players. This is true. Listen to the Podcasts, read IRC, see for yourself what the developers think.
2. You can solo most of the game if you pick the right class. I played mostly a cleric and outside of dungeons needed no help what so ever. The cleric is a class that needs some balancing thats for sure.
3. It is easy to master so far. The skills in each tree are not that unique nor are they that varied and deep. You only need a small combo set of a dps skill and two others to compliment it with buff or debuff and cc.
Good game design dictates the escalation of challenge, as well as a balance between what we call anxiety and boredom. Rift is imbalanced in its design as many are in the realm of boredom, yet none have actually crossed over to the opposite side of anxiety. I study and work with game design, so if you try to dismiss this as a "normal users" opinion, then thats your loss. Just saying.
A lot of what the OP says I agree with, however it seems that Rift has attracted one of the worst sort of gamers. The elite niche that are so fanatical about their viewpoint that no logical and rational discussion can be had about its short comings. This is a dangerous combo. It drives people away from the game, not too it.
Please, we all know by now each game attracts its fanatics. Both in positive sense (fanboys) as negative (haters).
You should allways take their opinions with a pinch of salt. I sure throw a can of salt over your opinion of this game each time I see one.
But lets be honest here. The amount and the vigure of fanboys seems quite normal in Rifts case. People tend to be nice, we seem to be able to have descent conversations all the time, flamewars are in the low numbers.
To give you a reference ... look at the FFXIV fanboys a while back. Each and every thread resulted in a flamewar, namecalling, banning, removal of threads, etc. It was allmost impossible to have descent conversations.
So Imho Rift fans aren't that bad. So you can shelve your remark for now, don't you think?
Edit:
I would be interested to know what games you designed allready? Would be nice to see your take on a perfect gaming world in action.
I agree, this game is super casual friendly. It is mostly solo, easy to master, and requires little thinking to play, exactly the kind of virtual knitting simulator a certain section of MMOers are looking for after a day at work.
I am disappointed, it took less than a day for you too cut to straight up trolling.
Not that you were ever convincing to start with.
What exactly is he doing that results in trolling. Telling someone they were not convincing to start with IS trolling, it is baiting someone to respond in a negative manner without even staying on topic.
The OP layed out his observations about the game.
1. It is very friendly to casual players. This is true. Listen to the Podcasts, read IRC, see for yourself what the developers think.
2. You can solo most of the game if you pick the right class. I played mostly a cleric and outside of dungeons needed no help what so ever. The cleric is a class that needs some balancing thats for sure.
3. It is easy to master so far. The skills in each tree are not that unique nor are they that varied and deep. You only need a small combo set of a dps skill and two others to compliment it with buff or debuff and cc.
Good game design dictates the escalation of challenge, as well as a balance between what we call anxiety and boredom. Rift is imbalanced in its design as many are in the realm of boredom, yet none have actually crossed over to the opposite side of anxiety. I study and work with game design, so if you try to dismiss this as a "normal users" opinion, then thats your loss. Just saying.
A lot of what the OP says I agree with, however it seems that Rift has attracted one of the worst sort of gamers. The elite niche that are so fanatical about their viewpoint that no logical and rational discussion can be had about its short comings. This is a dangerous combo. It drives people away from the game, not too it.
Please, we all know by now each game attracts its fanatics. Both in positive sense (fanboys) as negative (haters).
You should allways take their opinions with a pinch of salt. I sure throw a can of salt over your opinion of this game each time I see one.
But lets be honest here. The amount and the vigure of fanboys seems quite normal in Rifts case. People tend to be nice, we seem to be able to have descent conversations all the time, flamewars are in the low numbers.
To give you a reference ... look at the FFXIV fanboys a while back. Each and every thread resulted in a flamewar, namecalling, banning, removal of threads, etc. It was allmost impossible to have descent conversations.
So Imho Rift fans aren't that bad. So you can shelve your remark for now, don't you think?
Are you going to broadly assume all fanatics are the same? To do so would be silly. Different games attract DIFFERENT player bases and groups. You cannot really disagree with that logically. If you have ever worked in or with a marketing department (for games as well) you know they specifically name and target specific player groups and audiences.
There is really no reason to hate Rift UNLESS you were formerly attracted to Rift and realized the misrepresentation sponsored by Trion. Is this my opinion? No. I was at E3. Were you? I was at their booth, listening to their leads directly. I reported on a lot of their claims and was geniunely impressed with the concept of the game. Then I was given an opportunity to test the game, including these beta's and what I found was not a AAA Premium NEXT GEN title they were aggressively marketing, but an under developed generic game which featured a lot of weakly executed design choices.
How can I talk about design choices? Because I work with game design. Both educational backround and skill sets. I know how games work, how they are made from the ground up. Design, both analog and digital theory, implimentation, the behavioral science based means to create immersion through emotional response. I have, in my past descriptions of Rift, layed out many concrete details that are not opinions but observations and explainations on how it works. The result is that many have ignored the concrete details and began attacking the person or going off on tangents instead.
This means no rational dialog can be had between the two as one side is choosing to be block headed and ignorant. Its not coming from the "haters" from what I am seeing in this thread. In fact, to just lump everyone who has a not so positive outlook on rift as "haters" is just irresponsible and silly.
I think this thread is a testement as to how "bad" some of these rift fanboys are. So you can take your elitist attitude and as you said "shelf it" for now. I mean you have to agree that kind of confrontational attitude you are taking is a bit rude and it borders on flame baiting.
I am not really sure where to start with you but I will try to explain. If you were willing to read my entire post (you admit that you didn't which by the way is truly childish) you would have realized I acutally didn't feel much of what you said was wrong. Your deleivery on the other hand simply was if you didnt want to get attacked. You do it here also tossing out personal attacks of your own. You call me juvenile repeatedly yet you cant read an entire response. Even when you drone on about what you dislike whether it bothers me or not I finish reading anybody deserves that much (and it keeps you from looking like an idiot when you respond).
You have 2000+ post and you expect me to believe that you dont know the nature of these forums? You posted with the intent to fight. You know you did. Its not juvenile its the way of this forum. If you post looking for a fight you will get one. You should simply have known better. I pointed out where you went wrong but you didnt want to hear it (Childish behavior on your part). I am not condoning personal attacks but if you walk around with a target sign what do you expect. Your telling me in 2000+ post here you really dont get it? Even with 200 post I know what it looks like when your trying to start something ( I might be doing it to you right now. Its true I am aware but you deserve it..)
The best part is that I didnt go off topic I read your arguement and simplified it into something discussable and something that could not provoke a personal attack I will repost it try to read this time unless you get too mad before you get this far.
"Simply put if you dont want to get attacked dont hit the "POST MESSAGE" when you post reads the way it does. BTW I for one felt you had some valid reasons for not playing in your post if summarized them without the extra wall of text it could read:
I wont play this game because the leveling curve is to easy for me, I see no new content, and I have a general dislike of quest hub theme park type games.
My simple counter:
I agree except I feel the game is fun, polished, and over all I generally like theme park games."
No, the OP does not by definition have to follow the childish and ridiculous behaviour that makes up the current standard of these forums. What you are describing is debate, not discussion. These forums are made for discussion and not debate. Just because a lot of posters turn it into fighting boards and debates doesn't mean the OP can not differ from them. He used the board as intended, the posters attacking him don't.
Also his response to you was valid imo, when I first read I aswell felt the need to skip the rest, because of this unfair statement that made the OP responsible for the fight that other poster are willingly creating. I did however read your post entirely to see if maybe you were being sarcastic or denied your ridiculous statement later on, but you didn't. Therefore reading your entire post didn't make it any better at all.
You just say you thought his points in the OP were not all that wrong, SO WHAT? How would this be a comfort after you just told him he brought the attacks upon himself. It is like you agree with the debate culture here. "Hey no worries, I agree with you" You do not have to agree to be friends or anything, its a bloody discussion. To agree or not is not of importance here, it is not a debate so there is no value to it. You can just voice your opinion and elaborate on it, there is no need to convince. anybody.
The current mindset that is standard in these forums is ridiculous and actually you just admitted it was. That means we should IGNORE that and point out that there is no need for it. The OP stated his opinion and clearly showed understanding to those with different opinions. PEOPLE LIKE DIFFERENT THINGS. No debate needed.
I am not really sure where to start with you but I will try to explain. If you were willing to read my entire post (you admit that you didn't which by the way is truly childish) you would have realized I acutally didn't feel much of what you said was wrong. Your deleivery on the other hand simply was if you didnt want to get attacked. You do it here also tossing out personal attacks of your own. You call me juvenile repeatedly yet you cant read an entire response. Even when you drone on about what you dislike whether it bothers me or not I finish reading anybody deserves that much (and it keeps you from looking like an idiot when you respond).
You have 2000+ post and you expect me to believe that you dont know the nature of these forums? You posted with the intent to fight. You know you did. Its not juvenile its the way of this forum. If you post looking for a fight you will get one. You should simply have known better. I pointed out where you went wrong but you didnt want to hear it (Childish behavior on your part). I am not condoning personal attacks but if you walk around with a target sign what do you expect. Your telling me in 2000+ post here you really dont get it? Even with 200 post I know what it looks like when your trying to start something ( I might be doing it to you right now. Its true I am aware but you deserve it..)
The best part is that I didnt go off topic I read your arguement and simplified it into something discussable and something that could not provoke a personal attack I will repost it try to read this time unless you get too mad before you get this far.
"Simply put if you dont want to get attacked dont hit the "POST MESSAGE" when you post reads the way it does. BTW I for one felt you had some valid reasons for not playing in your post if summarized them without the extra wall of text it could read:
I wont play this game because the leveling curve is to easy for me, I see no new content, and I have a general dislike of quest hub theme park type games.
My simple counter:
I agree except I feel the game is fun, polished, and over all I generally like theme park games."
No, the OP does not by definition have to follow the childish and ridiculous behaviour that makes up the current standard of these forums. What you are describing is debate, not discussion. These forums are made for discussion and not debate. Just because a lot of posters turn it into fighting boards and debates doesn't mean the OP can not differ from them. He used the board as intended, the posters attacking him don't.
Also his response to you was valid imo, when I first read I aswell felt the need to skip the rest, because of this unfair statement that made the OP responsible for the fight that other poster are willingly creating. I did however read your post entirely to see if maybe you were being sarcastic or denied your ridiculous statement later on, but you didn't. Therefore reading your entire post didn't make it any better at all.
You just say you thought his points in the OP were not all that wrong, SO WHAT? How would this be a comfort after you just told him he brought the attacks upon himself. It is like you agree with the debate culture here. "Hey no worries, I agree with you" You do not have to agree to be friends or anything, its a bloody discussion. To agree or not is not of importance here, it is not a debate so there is no value to it. You can just voice your opinion and elaborate on it, there is no need to convince. anybody.
The current mindset that is standard in these forums is ridiculous and actually you just admitted it was. That means we should IGNORE that and point out that there is no need for it. The OP stated his opinion and clearly showed understanding to those with different opinions. PEOPLE LIKE DIFFERENT THINGS. No debate needed.
The fact that you know how these forums are and yet you post the way you do tells me all i need to know. Is it ridculous how arguementative these forums are? IMHO yes sort of (opinion not fact), but Is it a fact that these forums are that way? YES. He should have very well known to post and leave the thread alone but each and every response is just another reason to attack him. He asked for it just like so many others and plays the victim card like it wasn't his fault.
What i meant by the OP "wasn't wrong" is just factual. He presented some of his opinions (not facts) and they were valid. That doesnt mean he didnt ask for it. From the minute you mention I will wait for "x" game while you guys play this one your asking for it. From the minute it sounds like you dont like themepark games knowing full thats the game genre your asking for it. From the time you hit "POST MESSAGE" and you know something you have said might upset somebody your asking for it. It is the very nature of these forums. If you do not like it just leave.No matter how you feel about it the fact remains he posted thus he asked for it. It doesnt matter if its positive or negative voicing your opinions here means you best be ready to defend them and anything else you said nothing more nothing less. He simply could have refused to respond but he did (just like you and me) adding more fuel to the fire. You are actively playing this forum game and calling it childish to quote you "No, the OP does not by definition have to follow the childish and ridiculous behaviour that makes up the current standard of these forums."
Yet that is exactly what he is doing with each reply (same as you and me). If you know what the response will be don't be pissed just accept it.
Like I have said before while I feel the game is not innovative it seems to me the game is polised and executes elements we have seen before in such a way that they are enjoyable. This is my basic arguement his could have been this simple also.
Yeah I have tested beta 1 to 4 and have to say not for me, far to easy and boring same old all the time. But I am sure it will sell bucket loads of them and do okay, doubt it's a Wow killer, infact it's even easier than Wow.
This comment made me smile, wow isnt the zergfest it was a few months ago. I'd say there are now a lot of games that are easier than wow since cataclysm launched. In fact blizz are probably going to hemmorage players in vast droves with the new heroic dungeon difficulty.
I can see wow's casual playerbase lapping up rifts easymode playstyle (at least till the next tier of content in cataclysm arrives).
I agree, this game is super casual friendly. It is mostly solo, easy to master, and requires little thinking to play, exactly the kind of virtual knitting simulator a certain section of MMOers are looking for after a day at work.
It will do very well, at least for the first 3 months, but thats the obvious business plan here anyhow so good luck to Trion.
So what exactly are you looking for in an MMORPG? What do you actively play now? EVE, Darkfall, Lotro? These are a couple of the harder more intense mmo's out here. I played all three, actually played EVE on and off for a few years. Definately not an easy game to master or learn. Darkfall, eh, its Darkfall; A paranoid gankfest.
I was thinking about ramping up me ole DF account. What are you playing now?
The fact that you know how these forums are and yet you post the way you do tells me all i need to know. Is it ridculous how arguementative these forums are? IMHO yes sort of (opinion not fact), but Is it a fact that these forums are that way? YES. He should have very well known to post and leave the thread alone but each and every response is just another reason to attack him. He asked for it just like so many others and plays the victim card like it wasn't his fault.
No, the forums are not used the way they should and the OP is using it as intended. He is looking to voice his opinion and these forums are to facilitate on that. He enters a meta-discussion BECAUSE the other posters are simply wrong on this level. They have the wrong intentions, and he points that out. Just because most people have the wrong idea of what a discussion is and what the rules of discussing are is not the OP's fault in any way. You say leave it for what it is, I say fight it or ignore it and hope to find someone sane....
What i meant by the OP "wasn't wrong" is just factual. He presented some of his opinions (not facts) and they were valid. That doesnt mean he didnt ask for it. From the minute you mention I will wait for "x" game while you guys play this one your asking for it. From the minute it sounds like you dont like themepark games knowing full thats the game genre your asking for it. From the time you hit "POST MESSAGE" and you know something you have said might upset somebody your asking for it. It is the very nature of these forums. If you do not like it just leave.No matter how you feel about it the fact remains he posted thus he asked for it. It doesnt matter if its positive or negative voicing your opinions here means you best be ready to defend them and anything else you said nothing more nothing less. He simply could have refused to respond but he did (just like you and me) adding more fuel to the fire. You are actively playing this forum game and calling it childish to quote you "No, the OP does not by definition have to follow the childish and ridiculous behaviour that makes up the current standard of these forums."
Yet that is exactly what he is doing with each reply (same as you and me). If you know what the response will be don't be pissed just accept it.
No that is not true at all, he is entering a meta-discussion because the invalid points and intentions of other poster force him to. It is ridiculous that when i try to have a civil discussion that i should keep in mind that other people are incapable of doing so. And even more ridiculous that because of this I should leave and not the people who do not know what a discussion is, even though we are on a discussionboard.
Like I have said before while I feel the game is not innovative it seems to me the game is polised and executes elements we have seen before in such a way that they are enjoyable. This is my basic arguement his could have been this simple also.
Yes that simple, but also in a negative way. he might not find it enjoyable. When he would have said so, he would have gotten the same shit he is getting now because he is negative about something other people like and those people can not handle this. You already stated that the OP had VALID points. So thats not the problem. It seems the problem here is the fact that the OP is being negative. People for some reason can not handle negativity. i can be both positive and negative about 1 object or subject, I can still like junkfood but acknowledge it is junk. But on these forums people have to deal in absolutes constantly. Like when I like the color Red, i must absolutely hate green. which is ridiculous....
I think this thread is a testement as to how "bad" some of these rift fanboys are.
Yeah I'm a total Rift fanboy, I've only made one post about it which can be summed up as "Yeah its ok".
The fact is you've got no idea what your actually talking about at all. Hes trolling because he clearly has never had any intention of liking the Rift. Hes just as bad as the fanboys, following the stupid hype train around, just for the opposite reasons.
Your even worse, just here to prattle on about your own opinions like your the be all and end all.
Comments
lol look at the attacks again... you guys... o.0
How was I trolling you? By explaining, again, how what you assumed my view on games was right now was wrong and telling you I was actually enjoying a game right now?
You can think what you like I guess, but when someone explains clearly thats not how they are feeling and gives me evidence to back it up, I personally tend to listen. Not get angry.
Useful to you how? just curious. I agree that the OP made his point, but were you really on the fence about seriously looking into Rift? The answer is no. We can read your other posts my friend. You're looking forward to Tera and taking a thirty second look at Rift would tell you that the two games are not alike. In fact your mind was basically made up with the whole garbage thread (i'm not saing your post was garbage) about Rift being WAR repackaged. So, it's odd that this thread would have some information that you'd find interesting- when in fact you'd already decided that this game was not for you.
You must be hard to please.
Every post you've made that I've looked at has been negative. Whether it has to deal with Rift, Star Wars w/e doesn't matter.
Much to my own regret I agree with what you say. I only played to around level 20, but my impression is essentially the same as yours. It's fun for a while, but the lack of any evoked feeling is the overall impression Rift left on me. I can't even put my finger exactly on whats lacking, but I feel it clearly.
I think the game is in the AoC-category: fun at first, but losing appeal fast.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
So, after falsely accusing someone of trying to put his opinion in other people's minds you are now stepping it up a notch to determining people's opinions for them? Well done.
Also you are somehow imposing the short sighted belief that someone liking one kind of game automatically dislikes any other kind on me V_V
Keep those restrictive views to yourself please. I've enjoyed and played both WOW and EVE Online for years to give you an example. While they are very different they were both very good games in my book.
Also if you would look a bit closer at the date stamps on my posts, you'd notice that I haven't been posting in the Rift and Tera forums for long. I've been looking into and forming opinions on both these games only in the past week or so. And it is exactly posts like the OP's which helped me form an initial opinion to postpone jumping into this game and give it a long, hard stare from the fence for a while first. Especially stuff I read about the world feeling cramped and following a linear trajectory has alarm bells ringing here; I intensely disliked that in WAR and AOC for instance.
Posts like your own sadly aren't helping anyone as all you seem to do is making things personal rather than giving point by point feedback or writing down your own opinion in a consise manner like the OP has done. Try to be constructive in the discusion and lets keep it on topic please.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Falsely accusing someone? you have me confused with another poster. My point was that you already got this information from another thread. You responded about the whole linear thing in that thread. Yet to make your point you acted like you had never heard this information before for whatever reason, when you had. That was the point of my post. You pretended that the OP gave you information that you already didn't know to form an opinion. The truth is you already had an opinion that you agree with the OP. To give it more weight you pretended to not know this information, as if you came to this thread unsure about what Rift was and was enlightened by that post.
My apologies.
Anyway, the rest of my reply stands.
I told you exactly what it is: I've been shaping my opinion in the past days by posts like the OP's: concise, informative descriptions of game experiences. If you want to make some kind of witch hunt for "haters with an agenda" out of this and fool yourself in the process; be my guest. I couldn't care less.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Let's get down to the real reason why the OP is getting attacked. People are defending Rift. They so desperately want this game to be something it's not that they're delusional. They accept a low quality game. That's fine. What they do with their time is up to them. But I believe the OP has very solid reasons on why Rift is not for him. I don't see why people have to attack him for it. He's not putting this game under a microscope. He's not over thinking it. He's simply saying that Rift disappointed him because it wasn't what was promised. Obviously the guy has been following the game's development for quite some time. I know how that feels. I know how it feels to follow a game for years since it was announced. Then it would come up short.
Finding a home in the MMO genre is tough to do. Finding a second home is even harder. He tried Rift because that's what he was looking for. Maybe if everyone would stop attacking him and step back for a moment, you'd see that his reasons are valid.
I had your problem too buddy. I was lucky enough to find a home in Guild Wars. Good luck to you. Hope you find the game that will give you an unforgettable experience.
Its not that the OP was wrong (granted some of his reasons were so subjective they barely needed mentioning) His over all reasons were valid yet I could disagree across the board. There is no right or wrong to this (its all opinions). If you dont like the game state your reasons and move on. If you like the game state your reasons and continue.
Expect to get attacked. They want to defend the game. The fact that you took time to post can be considered in itself a form of attack (you could have simply not played and not voiced your opinions. No one asked you how you felt. You opened that door yourself, right?) . Either way the guaranteed thing that made your review bad imho is the mentioning of another game at the end of the post. It is what makes all reviews or "why I am not going to play" bad. You took a game with minimal information out about it and put it up as a shining hope (what many did with rift) and when you get your hands on it (like history has shown us time nd time again) you will be likely underwhelmed because you built up your hopes and hyped yourself into a point of unattainable goals.
Simply put if you dont want to get attacked dont hit the "POST MESSAGE" when you post reads the way it does. BTW I for one felt you had some valid reasons for not playing in your post if summarized them without the extra wall of text it could read:
I wont play this game because the leveling curve is to easy for me, I see no new content, and I have a general dislike of quest hub theme park type games.
My simple counter:
I agree except I feel the game is fun, polished, and over all I generally like theme park games.
I watched this game for awhile* and it was exactly what was promised. A high fantasy "classic" follow up to the current crop of theme park mmorpg. If anything, they've exceeded what would be expected based on what they said about the game. Anyone who thought it was going to be anything else substituted what they wanted for what Trion said would be there.
* Technically, a friend watched it for awhile. I was not initially interested in the game based on how it was described.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This comment made me smile, wow isnt the zergfest it was a few months ago. I'd say there are now a lot of games that are easier than wow since cataclysm launched. In fact blizz are probably going to hemmorage players in vast droves with the new heroic dungeon difficulty.
I can see wow's casual playerbase lapping up rifts easymode playstyle (at least till the next tier of content in cataclysm arrives).
Don't be ridiculous. In fact, this attitude, the one where everyone's opinion that dosent agree with yours in an 'attack', is exactly the problem with these boards. Percieving the need to 'defend' against every one that dosent like your favourite game is a siege mentality and just breeds conflict, something that you would hope most adults have grown past. I stated opinions and put them up for discussion, thats all. I wasnt rude and didnt troll. Responding in a hostile way can't be justified.
Disagree, sure, tell me why, sure, share your own opinion, sure, but aggressively attack me for having different ones? No.
Tbh, this one simple statement above made me stop reading and dismiss everything else you said out of hand, which is a shame because you may have made some decent points.
You are condoning personal attacks in a thread thats talking about a game, which to me is the opposite of what it was started for.
If people feel the need to defend the game by making personal attacks that says more about them then I, and I don't accept this attempt to shft responsibility for that on to the poster. It's just a juvenile way of thinking.
Anyhow, enough derailment of you talking about me (another juvenile way of posting), lets get back to the game and chatting about our opinions of it.
I agree, this game is super casual friendly. It is mostly solo, easy to master, and requires little thinking to play, exactly the kind of virtual knitting simulator a certain section of MMOers are looking for after a day at work.
It will do very well, at least for the first 3 months, but thats the obvious business plan here anyhow so good luck to Trion.
Thanks Kay
What you posted was pretty spot on, except I don't really feel like Trion 'promised' me anything, and thats really not a part of my problem with it.
My problems really lie more in what they didnt talk about... Trion wasnt exactly vocal about the lack of in game character itemisation and differentation, it wasnt exactly forthcoming about how limited rifts were, it didnt brag about it's utter lack of 'fluff', it didnt wax lyrical about how small and mundane it's dungeons were, it didnt go on about how clunky and clumsy combat would feel, it wasnt exactly forthcoming either in saying 'hey, we are making a tiny linear derivative game with no ambition that is aimed at the solo super casual player'.
In essence, a lot of my problems with Rift are based on what Trion didnt say, rather then what they did.
I am disappointed, it took less than a day for you too cut to straight up trolling.
Not that you were ever convincing to start with.
I am not really sure where to start with you but I will try to explain. If you were willing to read my entire post (you admit that you didn't which by the way is truly childish) you would have realized I acutally didn't feel much of what you said was wrong. Your deleivery on the other hand simply was if you didnt want to get attacked. You do it here also tossing out personal attacks of your own. You call me juvenile repeatedly yet you cant read an entire response. Even when you drone on about what you dislike whether it bothers me or not I finish reading anybody deserves that much (and it keeps you from looking like an idiot when you respond).
You have 2000+ post and you expect me to believe that you dont know the nature of these forums? You posted with the intent to fight. You know you did. Its not juvenile its the way of this forum. If you post looking for a fight you will get one. You should simply have known better. I pointed out where you went wrong but you didnt want to hear it (Childish behavior on your part). I am not condoning personal attacks but if you walk around with a target sign what do you expect. Your telling me in 2000+ post here you really dont get it? Even with 200 post I know what it looks like when your trying to start something ( I might be doing it to you right now. Its true I am aware but you deserve it..)
The best part is that I didnt go off topic I read your arguement and simplified it into something discussable and something that could not provoke a personal attack I will repost it try to read this time unless you get too mad before you get this far.
"Simply put if you dont want to get attacked dont hit the "POST MESSAGE" when you post reads the way it does. BTW I for one felt you had some valid reasons for not playing in your post if summarized them without the extra wall of text it could read:
I wont play this game because the leveling curve is to easy for me, I see no new content, and I have a general dislike of quest hub theme park type games.
My simple counter:
I agree except I feel the game is fun, polished, and over all I generally like theme park games."
What exactly is he doing that results in trolling. Telling someone they were not convincing to start with IS trolling, it is baiting someone to respond in a negative manner without even staying on topic.
The OP layed out his observations about the game.
1. It is very friendly to casual players. This is true. Listen to the Podcasts, read IRC, see for yourself what the developers think.
2. You can solo most of the game if you pick the right class. I played mostly a cleric and outside of dungeons needed no help what so ever. The cleric is a class that needs some balancing thats for sure.
3. It is easy to master so far. The skills in each tree are not that unique nor are they that varied and deep. You only need a small combo set of a dps skill and two others to compliment it with buff or debuff and cc.
Good game design dictates the escalation of challenge, as well as a balance between what we call anxiety and boredom. Rift is imbalanced in its design as many are in the realm of boredom, yet none have actually crossed over to the opposite side of anxiety. I study and work with game design, so if you try to dismiss this as a "normal users" opinion, then thats your loss. Just saying.
A lot of what the OP says I agree with, however it seems that Rift has attracted one of the worst sort of gamers. The elite niche that are so fanatical about their viewpoint that no logical and rational discussion can be had about its short comings. This is a dangerous combo. It drives people away from the game, not too it.
Please, we all know by now each game attracts its fanatics. Both in positive sense (fanboys) as negative (haters).
You should allways take their opinions with a pinch of salt. I sure throw a can of salt over your opinion of this game each time I see one.
But lets be honest here. The amount and the vigure of fanboys seems quite normal in Rifts case. People tend to be nice, we seem to be able to have descent conversations all the time, flamewars are in the low numbers.
To give you a reference ... look at the FFXIV fanboys a while back. Each and every thread resulted in a flamewar, namecalling, banning, removal of threads, etc. It was allmost impossible to have descent conversations.
So Imho Rift fans aren't that bad. So you can shelve your remark for now, don't you think?
Edit:
I would be interested to know what games you designed allready? Would be nice to see your take on a perfect gaming world in action.
Are you going to broadly assume all fanatics are the same? To do so would be silly. Different games attract DIFFERENT player bases and groups. You cannot really disagree with that logically. If you have ever worked in or with a marketing department (for games as well) you know they specifically name and target specific player groups and audiences.
There is really no reason to hate Rift UNLESS you were formerly attracted to Rift and realized the misrepresentation sponsored by Trion. Is this my opinion? No. I was at E3. Were you? I was at their booth, listening to their leads directly. I reported on a lot of their claims and was geniunely impressed with the concept of the game. Then I was given an opportunity to test the game, including these beta's and what I found was not a AAA Premium NEXT GEN title they were aggressively marketing, but an under developed generic game which featured a lot of weakly executed design choices.
How can I talk about design choices? Because I work with game design. Both educational backround and skill sets. I know how games work, how they are made from the ground up. Design, both analog and digital theory, implimentation, the behavioral science based means to create immersion through emotional response. I have, in my past descriptions of Rift, layed out many concrete details that are not opinions but observations and explainations on how it works. The result is that many have ignored the concrete details and began attacking the person or going off on tangents instead.
This means no rational dialog can be had between the two as one side is choosing to be block headed and ignorant. Its not coming from the "haters" from what I am seeing in this thread. In fact, to just lump everyone who has a not so positive outlook on rift as "haters" is just irresponsible and silly.
I think this thread is a testement as to how "bad" some of these rift fanboys are. So you can take your elitist attitude and as you said "shelf it" for now. I mean you have to agree that kind of confrontational attitude you are taking is a bit rude and it borders on flame baiting.
The fact that you know how these forums are and yet you post the way you do tells me all i need to know. Is it ridculous how arguementative these forums are? IMHO yes sort of (opinion not fact), but Is it a fact that these forums are that way? YES. He should have very well known to post and leave the thread alone but each and every response is just another reason to attack him. He asked for it just like so many others and plays the victim card like it wasn't his fault.
What i meant by the OP "wasn't wrong" is just factual. He presented some of his opinions (not facts) and they were valid. That doesnt mean he didnt ask for it. From the minute you mention I will wait for "x" game while you guys play this one your asking for it. From the minute it sounds like you dont like themepark games knowing full thats the game genre your asking for it. From the time you hit "POST MESSAGE" and you know something you have said might upset somebody your asking for it. It is the very nature of these forums. If you do not like it just leave.No matter how you feel about it the fact remains he posted thus he asked for it. It doesnt matter if its positive or negative voicing your opinions here means you best be ready to defend them and anything else you said nothing more nothing less. He simply could have refused to respond but he did (just like you and me) adding more fuel to the fire. You are actively playing this forum game and calling it childish to quote you "No, the OP does not by definition have to follow the childish and ridiculous behaviour that makes up the current standard of these forums."
Yet that is exactly what he is doing with each reply (same as you and me). If you know what the response will be don't be pissed just accept it.
Like I have said before while I feel the game is not innovative it seems to me the game is polised and executes elements we have seen before in such a way that they are enjoyable. This is my basic arguement his could have been this simple also.
So what exactly are you looking for in an MMORPG? What do you actively play now? EVE, Darkfall, Lotro? These are a couple of the harder more intense mmo's out here. I played all three, actually played EVE on and off for a few years. Definately not an easy game to master or learn. Darkfall, eh, its Darkfall; A paranoid gankfest.
I was thinking about ramping up me ole DF account. What are you playing now?
Yeah I'm a total Rift fanboy, I've only made one post about it which can be summed up as "Yeah its ok".
The fact is you've got no idea what your actually talking about at all. Hes trolling because he clearly has never had any intention of liking the Rift. Hes just as bad as the fanboys, following the stupid hype train around, just for the opposite reasons.
Your even worse, just here to prattle on about your own opinions like your the be all and end all.