Audits are standard processes in business. There doesn’t need to be an accusation to warrant an audit. An audit is not the result of an accusation or suspicion necessarily. And audit is a healthy business practice that should never be avoided.
The fact that that RSI has raised $85 million dollars alone is enough to warrant the audit.
Again, the only thing unreasonable is that any company in the world would deny a free audit. An audit can only help an honest and legitimate company, especially one that has had some accusation levied against it.
Please don’t equate an audit to a criminal investigation process. Criminal investigations usually include audits of some kind, but audits by themselves are not criminal investigations. Audits are healthy and necessary to legitimate processes.
A free audit is a rare gift and should be embraced….. Unless there is something to hide.
Again, I am a backer and can wait as long as possible for the game.
There's nothing wrong with an audit. It's who performs or has information to all the details of the audit that matters. Just because Derek Smart wants to know every single little inch of what is happening doesn't mean he should or has a right to.
Reality is (and Derek Smart knows this) the Star Citizen developers need to be left alone to develop. Due to the scope (which has increased, but not because of 'feature creep') and budget, this project is a 4 - 5 year project now. From what we're seeing now it appears to still be within that time frame.
As I said before, the backers were promised AT LEAST a sailboat; Star Citizen received funding for a battleship; so now -and this is ridiculous- Derek Smart is crying for the sailboat?
By this point, everyone should recognize Derek Smart's 'opinion', 'assertions', 'speculations', and non-existent 'sources' for what they are: PURE NONSENSE.
I just had to feed into the insanity.... I made a post in the Line of Defense MMO forum on Steam; It lasted a few hours before I was permanently banned from the forum and the post was deleted, but I was actually expecting that reaction, and it demonstrates how things get handled by this guy perfectly.
> Originally posted by dsmart: Thanks. We've been taking a lot of flak from people who simply don't understand the process. Or they just want to be mean, and counter-productive.
Really? you make tons of VERY public criticisms of how certain other games have handled their development cycle, then wonder why people ask you to hold yourself to the same standard? Suddenly, they don't understand the process because they are questioning you?
>Ban Reason: no trolling here
Apparently, I'm one of those that "doesn't understand the process" and "wanted to be mean, and counter-productive".
I never ever post here but honestly you're so ignorant I felt compelled to hit the quote and reply button. Derek Smart could be full of shit, dead wrong and an ignorant fucking internet troll for all anyone cares. But what you're failing to understand is that he backed the game giving him a legitimate stance to have a voice, and after 4 years and 80+ million he simply wants to know what the fucking hold-up is. How is that a bad thing? If YOU personally gave them even $50 and 4 years later had almost nothing to show for, are you seriously telling me you wouldn't be curious or demand some answers? I mean $85,000,000 is a shitload of money for a Kickstarted game, and 4 years of development is a serious amount of time.
Who the hell would back a game and expect 5-10 years development? Get a brain your internet post gave me a fucking headache trying to understand your ignorance or where you were even coming from mentally to post such dribble.
I had to highlight this. If not only because the irony is so, so obvious. First, this IS one of the biggest games ever developed, possibly the single largest game ever developed. Games generally will take 5-10 years to develop. Blizzard had Titan in development for 10 years and it never even saw the light of day. The fact that you can't see that shows your own ignorance.
Derek Smart's OWN MMO Line of Defence is just in Early Access at this point, but there are trailers online as early as 2011, which means that there was a development effort ongoing prior to that as well. So it's safe to assume that even a second rate, crappy MMO like Line of Defence takes 5+ years to develop, and it's still NOT RELEASED!!! So this begs the question why would someone with first-hand knowledge of the industry buy into this? My vote, and based on previous actions, is that he's just a raging a-hole. It's not even being a White Knight like some would suggest. I'm really sorry, but if he was such a white knight, he'd pull his own crap game from the Steam marketplace because it's not fair to subject players to the POS that he's put out there. Where's the focus on quality?
So again, you can take your multiple counts of ignorance and move along.
safe to assume that even a second rate, MMO like Line of Defense takes 5+ years to develop, by a team of less than a dozen, self-funded for under $15m, and is on track to release 5 years later
Fixed that for you.
I'm not exactly sure how that helps your argument at all. You're saying that it took 5+ years and $15 million to create the steaming lump of shite that is Line of Defence? Yet RSI has, somehow, mis-managed $85 million? With a staff of over 250 people? Again, I know that there is licensing, offices, etc., etc. that go along with the actual development, but come ON!!! Get your head out of your ass.
The Repopulation was created by a smaller team, offers more complex features, is of better quality (both in content and actual performance), and they don't hide behind excuses about why their work is so horrible.
If people are going to petition for ANYTHING at this point, I would suggest petitioning for Derek's Line of Defence to be removed from Steam. It's happened to other games which reflected poorly on Steam and I think LOD is a game that is NOT up to the quality expectations of what I'd expect to find on Steam.
And what have you done in your glittering career? Oh wait sweet fuck all.
Obviously some people play his games, how many people are playing CrazKanuk games. I would bet your in your mums basement now munching on Warly pie.
Joker.
No.... no... I think that Steam spy would disagree. The development staff MIGHT play the game, but apart from that there are very few who do.
I've actually worked as a level designer and in business development in the game industry before I moved out of the games industry to pursue a career that didn't include 60-hour work weeks. However, I do still work in the software industry. Also, I'm currently working on an MMO while I'm teaching my kids software development. Figured it would be a good way to engage them. So my team size is actually only 5. Keeping in mind that they have zero experience in the industry, we do already have a game world, world server and basic combat. I'm thinking we'll probably be able to have it done in 2 years. Don't quote me on that, though, I don't want people to tell me I'm a liar and a scammer when I don't hit that date.
Also, I wasn't aware that you actually needed to submit your resume before criticising games on the Internet. I'll make sure to do that next time. That being said, Derek Smart hasn't really made any games either, so just because he pressed the compile button doesn't mean he has any idea how to make a game (or check it for quality for that matter).
Maybe if he spent as much time concerned about his own games as he does trolling on everyone else's, he'd actually have something halfway passable as a game.
I just had to feed into the insanity.... I made a post in the Line of Defense MMO forum on Steam; It lasted a few hours before I was permanently banned from the forum and the post was deleted, but I was actually expecting that reaction, and it demonstrates how things get handled by this guy perfectly.
> Originally posted by dsmart: Thanks. We've been taking a lot of flak from people who simply don't understand the process. Or they just want to be mean, and counter-productive.
Really? you make tons of VERY public criticisms of how certain other games have handled their development cycle, then wonder why people ask you to hold yourself to the same standard? Suddenly, they don't understand the process because they are questioning you?
>Ban Reason: no trolling here
Apparently, I'm one of those that "doesn't understand the process" and "wanted to be mean, and counter-productive".
I never ever post here but honestly you're so ignorant I felt compelled to hit the quote and reply button. Derek Smart could be full of shit, dead wrong and an ignorant fucking internet troll for all anyone cares. But what you're failing to understand is that he backed the game giving him a legitimate stance to have a voice, and after 4 years and 80+ million he simply wants to know what the fucking hold-up is. How is that a bad thing? If YOU personally gave them even $50 and 4 years later had almost nothing to show for, are you seriously telling me you wouldn't be curious or demand some answers? I mean $85,000,000 is a shitload of money for a Kickstarted game, and 4 years of development is a serious amount of time.
Who the hell would back a game and expect 5-10 years development? Get a brain your internet post gave me a fucking headache trying to understand your ignorance or where you were even coming from mentally to post such dribble.
I had to highlight this. If not only because the irony is so, so obvious. First, this IS one of the biggest games ever developed, possibly the single largest game ever developed. Games generally will take 5-10 years to develop. Blizzard had Titan in development for 10 years and it never even saw the light of day. The fact that you can't see that shows your own ignorance.
Derek Smart's OWN MMO Line of Defence is just in Early Access at this point, but there are trailers online as early as 2011, which means that there was a development effort ongoing prior to that as well. So it's safe to assume that even a second rate, crappy MMO like Line of Defence takes 5+ years to develop, and it's still NOT RELEASED!!! So this begs the question why would someone with first-hand knowledge of the industry buy into this? My vote, and based on previous actions, is that he's just a raging a-hole. It's not even being a White Knight like some would suggest. I'm really sorry, but if he was such a white knight, he'd pull his own crap game from the Steam marketplace because it's not fair to subject players to the POS that he's put out there. Where's the focus on quality?
So again, you can take your multiple counts of ignorance and move along.
safe to assume that even a second rate, MMO like Line of Defense takes 5+ years to develop, by a team of less than a dozen, self-funded for under $15m, and is on track to release 5 years later
Fixed that for you.
I'm not exactly sure how that helps your argument at all. You're saying that it took 5+ years and $15 million to create the steaming lump of shite that is Line of Defence? Yet RSI has, somehow, mis-managed $85 million? With a staff of over 250 people? Again, I know that there is licensing, offices, etc., etc. that go along with the actual development, but come ON!!! Get your head out of your ass.
The Repopulation was created by a smaller team, offers more complex features, is of better quality (both in content and actual performance), and they don't hide behind excuses about why their work is so horrible.
If people are going to petition for ANYTHING at this point, I would suggest petitioning for Derek's Line of Defence to be removed from Steam. It's happened to other games which reflected poorly on Steam and I think LOD is a game that is NOT up to the quality expectations of what I'd expect to find on Steam.
And what have you done in your glittering career? Oh wait sweet fuck all.
Obviously some people play his games, how many people are playing CrazKanuk games. I would bet your in your mums basement now munching on Warly pie.
Joker.
I'll rent you my basement, but I doubt you could afford it.
Originally posted by MisterZebub I'm amused at how quickly this little kerfuffle has already died down to just a few diehards on forums as toxic even as these. Once again today's click bait becomes tomorrows fodder for wrapping fish.
But of course !
If it isn't "trending", nobody can be bothered. The topic will go dormant until the next headline-worthy event...
Originally posted by MisterZebub I'm amused at how quickly this little kerfuffle has already died down to just a few diehards on forums as toxic even as these. Once again today's click bait becomes tomorrows fodder for wrapping fish.
But of course !
If it isn't "trending", nobody can be bothered. The topic will go dormant until the next headline-worthy event...
That's ok, I think he's gone now anyway. I am fairly certain I heard him retreating screaming, "Oh no, logic! My only weakness!"
this thread can't be dead yet, I just made more popcorn
I will just toss in that I am a backer for this, even though I don't normally play space sims, I just respected what they are trying to do with SC, and so far I am glad that I backed the project. The Arena Commander while limited is solid (IMO) and they have done enough with it that I am looking forward to the rest of the game, and I am willing to give them the time needed to make THEIR game.
I guess that would be MY demand, I demand RSI make their game, even if I hate it upon release. I want this game to be every thing they want it to be, and hope it is a commercial and critical success so we can get more games made by and for gamers and less games made by focus tests and board members. I want publishers to give devs time it takes to make a good game, fix bugs, and release a solid product instead of sending out steaming piles that will take months of patches to get it to a playable state. I understand it all comes down to return on investment, but if they see a trend that they will get better profit for releasing a quality product on day 1 then they will shift to ensure this.
I also understand that we as gamers play a major roll in this as well. We still buy our broken games, still support them, and forgive them. it's kind of like a little kid, as long as we allow them to do it, they will.
Wow, I guess I got a bit off of my original point there, but oh well.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
Originally posted by MrBum21 I want publishers to give devs time it takes to make a good game, fix bugs, and release a solid product instead of sending out steaming piles that will take months of patches to get it to a playable state.
The 'big bad publishers" keep things on track.
If the developers had their way they would develop indefinably because hey: who doesn't want job security?
I really don't understand why it is to hard to develop a games scope and estimate a games eta based on resources vs time scheduled. all these game devs that say "we ran out of time" obviously didn't manage their scope or resources and got their plug pulled.
Star citizen didn't have a fixed scope and didn't estimate reasonable a release date which is why they are in the mess they are. if they were up front and said: "this is what were doing, its going to take 5 years" then i personally would of allowed them a bit more merit but instead we got:
Unlimited scope + unlimited resources = no fucking reason to release ever.
Which is a shame because im waiting to push that purchase button once the game is launched.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by MrBum21 I want publishers to give devs time it takes to make a good game, fix bugs, and release a solid product instead of sending out steaming piles that will take months of patches to get it to a playable state.
The 'big bad publishers" keep things on track.
If the developers had their way they would develop indefinably because hey: who doesn't want job security?
I really don't understand why it is to hard to develop a games scope and estimate a games eta based on resources vs time scheduled. all these game devs that say "we ran out of time" obviously didn't manage their scope or resources and got their plug pulled.
Star citizen didn't have a fixed scope and didn't estimate reasonable a release date which is why they are in the mess they are. if they were up front and said: "this is what were doing, its going to take 5 years" then i personally would of allowed them a bit more merit but instead we got:
Unlimited scope + unlimited resources = no fucking reason to release ever.
Which is a shame because im waiting to push that purchase button once the game is launched.
What kind of mess? Crusaders trying to bring SC down or discredit Chris Roberts? That´s no mess just normal in that kind of game development. There is no mess... the mess ist just exaggerated by haters and due to the open development. We get to see things we normally don´t get to see. And due to this fact there is more discussion about decisions, departments, changes etc.
But the thing is: The scope was limited when the stretchgoal 65mio was achieved. The ressurces are also not unlimited. I don´t know where you got this info from?
Nothing against constructive critisism as it is very necessary to keep things on track and correct things.
But your approach is good. Waiting for the game to release and then decide whether you want to spend money or not.
Originally posted by MrBum21 I want publishers to give devs time it takes to make a good game, fix bugs, and release a solid product instead of sending out steaming piles that will take months of patches to get it to a playable state.
The 'big bad publishers" keep things on track.
If the developers had their way they would develop indefinably because hey: who doesn't want job security?
I really don't understand why it is to hard to develop a games scope and estimate a games eta based on resources vs time scheduled. all these game devs that say "we ran out of time" obviously didn't manage their scope or resources and got their plug pulled.
Star citizen didn't have a fixed scope and didn't estimate reasonable a release date which is why they are in the mess they are. if they were up front and said: "this is what were doing, its going to take 5 years" then i personally would of allowed them a bit more merit but instead we got:
Unlimited scope + unlimited resources = no fucking reason to release ever.
Which is a shame because im waiting to push that purchase button once the game is launched.
Lol, no, publishers don't keep things on track. They do control the purse strings, though, so at any given time you could be calling a game feature complete, regardless of scope. Developers do NOT define the scope of the game. There are designers, writers, creative directors, artists, etc. all of whom will contribute to the scope of a project. Also, these people are NOT interested in an indefinite project.
Originally posted by MrBum21 I want publishers to give devs time it takes to make a good game, fix bugs, and release a solid product instead of sending out steaming piles that will take months of patches to get it to a playable state.
The 'big bad publishers" keep things on track.
If the developers had their way they would develop indefinably because hey: who doesn't want job security?
I really don't understand why it is to hard to develop a games scope and estimate a games eta based on resources vs time scheduled. all these game devs that say "we ran out of time" obviously didn't manage their scope or resources and got their plug pulled.
Star citizen didn't have a fixed scope and didn't estimate reasonable a release date which is why they are in the mess they are. if they were up front and said: "this is what were doing, its going to take 5 years" then i personally would of allowed them a bit more merit but instead we got:
Unlimited scope + unlimited resources = no fucking reason to release ever.
Which is a shame because im waiting to push that purchase button once the game is launched.
as with any project crap happens. some times something that should be simple turns out the be one of the hardest parts. it's the fun job of the project manager to come up with the estimates based on experience and what little data you can find. SC is doing something different so they don't have much data to pull from.
I will agree that publishers keep things on track, but that is all they care about. They are like South Korean bus drivers (not being racist, just talk to any one who has ever been there) Their main goal is to get to their next stop on time, traffic laws and slower cars be damned. Some publishers, I can't say all or most, only care about hitting a target window to maximize their profit and minimize their investment. While this is an effective way to run a business it can lead to some of the issues that are becoming common.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
Lol, no, publishers don't keep things on track. They do control the purse strings, though, so at any given time you could be calling a game feature complete, regardless of scope. Developers do NOT define the scope of the game. There are designers, writers, creative directors, artists, etc. all of whom will contribute to the scope of a project. Also, these people are NOT interested in an indefinite project.
Uh...sure they do. That's one of their main jobs. And they also do define the cope of the game. If developer A has a great idea for a game, Publisher B is likely to tell them to modify it in certain ways so as to appeal to the largest audience. That's a scope change...
Derek's momentum has completely stopped. I'd say CIG has handled it totally professionally and called his bluff.
I'm not a backer or believer in the game but it didn't take long for me to take their side once the true Derek showed his face.
Funny thing...this is exactly what happened to me. I've thought poorly about the game, the selling of ideas for ships, etc...but man, this Derek Smart dude needs to get a healthy punch in the scrotum and just stfu already.
Here is a fun one. The Derek links this article in his Twitter feed ... and basically ALL comments following this article give The Derek and/or the article author a piece of their mind in no uncertain terms. I doubt The Derek has read the comments before he linked it ;-)
Warning: the following contains a lot of speculative numbers and assumptions (insert your own and recalculate)
Its also interesting for me to read about the unsustainability of this project. CIG currently has 255 employees. Lets assume that ON AVERAGE every employee costs 6500 $ per month.
Thats about 1,7 million $ in wages per month. Lets assume CIG spends another half million on contractors and infrastructure (=most of the hardware has already been bought by now). Of the 85 M$ raised for the project quite a bit has been spend already, but in previous years the number of employees was significantly lower. In my guestimate (!) there are 60 M$ ish left. With a spending of 2.2 M$ per month that amounts to about 27 months (= 2 years 3 months) or until November 2017. You can add to that every additional money coming in the next two years ... if its another 11 M$ (and thats an extremely conservative estimate) you get another half a year (until May 2018) covered. For comparison ... in the last two years on the average around 2.5 M$ were added per month through crowdfunding.
I personally expect Squadron 42 to be ready sometime in 2016. I suspect it will sell well. Lets assume 650.000 copies in addition to those who pledged (taken from the example Elite:Dangerous .. shows approx the size of the interested buyer segment above and beyond the initial backers). At 55 $ per game that would be around 36 M$ from sales. Production costs a bit, at some time CIG owners want some profit too, all the CIG eymployess want a bonus for completion ... . Lets say .. another 14 M$ are available for pushing the development of the Persistent Universe forward. Its December 2018 now.
Even with a moderate delay the persistent Universe should launch sometime in 2017. In the meantime some people will buy Part 3 of the SQ42 missions .... gets you into 2019. etc. etc.
Here is a recent article from the largest German gaming magazine GAMESTAR (in German --> Google Translator FTW, if you cannot understand the language, just watch the video ;-)
Some quotes from the summary : "Cardboard figures and Blindmans Buff" , " ....an absolute impudence of a game , that is abusing the Steam Early Access Program...", " Line of Defense is the complete bankruptcy of the developer Derek Smart "
And to top it all off, when the author was sending his bug reports to Derek Smart (exactly the way they should be reported), he was kicked from the forum for trolling and perma-banned (here is the transcript):
If someone demands ANYTHING from another gaming company, they first should take a CLOSE LOOK at their own games ... "Stone, meet glasshouse !"
Have fun
PS:
Derek Smart's reaction:
"So apparently this "Ben" guy is from the German magazine gamestar.de and they created this account and bogus tech support issues specifically to troll us. No doubt because they're Star Citizen fanboys and they don't like my blogs about it. And as expected, they now they have an entire article up about it."
I guess he never took the time to check out the Star Citizen articles on GameStar. If he did, he would not call them fanboys !
Now Derek Smart says that GameStar is too dumb to update their graphic drivers ... and of course he locked the thread.
Should someone tell him that GameStar has its own Hardware group that knows all the information one can know about correctly setting up test rigs for just about any test ?
The test rig that they used to run LoD handles Witcher 3 smoothly on ultra settings. In LOD they get under 10 fps, with the screen being mostly black.
Last 7 days. Peak online = 2 players. Last 30 days = 4 players (which was an improvement of +66 % compared to May)
Peak Online = 2 players. ONE is most likely Derek Smart. The OTHER is the GameStar Tester ;-)
ROFL.
Valve Moderator answer w.r.t. GameStar author being banned:
"Looking up the forum I can see it's Moderated by a certain person that is known by the Moderator team to be quite bad at Moderating.
So at this point I wouldn't even bother with their games. If they keep censoring people so much just don't support the company. It'll hurt them in the end."
I guess he never took the time to check out the Star Citizen articles on GameStar. If he did, he would not call them fanboys !
but that would imply that they didn't like his game because of specific and valid reasons, and that is unacceptable. Just like every one who doesn't like me, or agree with me are the people that are wrong. It's not my fault they don't like having beef gravy dumped on their heads as soon as they get out of the shower.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
that they didn't like his game because of specific and valid reasons, and that is unacceptable.
They give very specific and very valid reasons in the article.
For instance : Headline "Line of Defense »has stopped working<<"... as in :
"Bei unseren Versuchen, die anderen drei Maps zu betreten, verzichtete das Spiel dann konsequenterweise komplett auf jegliche Beleuchtung, der Bildschirm war bis auf die Minimap und Waffenanzeige schwarz. Tiefschwarz. Die Bildrate dieser Grafikanomalie betrug dabei regelmäßig weniger als 10 fps!"
"During our attempts to enter the other three maps, the game consistently forgoes any kind of lightning .. completely. The screen was black with the exception of the minimap and the weapon display. DEEPLY BLACK. The framerate of this graphical anomaly was routinely below 10 fps."
that they didn't like his game because of specific and valid reasons, and that is unacceptable.
They give very specific and very valid reasons in the article.
For instance : Headline "Line of Defense »has stopped working<<"... as in :
"Bei unseren Versuchen, die anderen drei Maps zu betreten, verzichtete das Spiel dann konsequenterweise komplett auf jegliche Beleuchtung, der Bildschirm war bis auf die Minimap und Waffenanzeige schwarz. Tiefschwarz. Die Bildrate dieser Grafikanomalie betrug dabei regelmäßig weniger als 10 fps!"
"During our attempts to enter the other three maps, the game consistently forgoes any kind of lightning .. completely. The screen was black with the exception of the minimap and the weapon display. DEEPLY BLACK. The framerate of this graphical anomaly was routinely below 10 fps."
It goes on an on in quite some detail.
Have fun
did you read the rest of my post? I know that sarcasm doesn't always work, but I thought the thing about pouring gravy one people as the exit the shower was a dead giveaway I wasn't serious.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
did you read the rest of my post? I know that sarcasm doesn't always work, but I thought the thing about pouring gravy one people as the exit the shower was a dead giveaway I wasn't serious.
I did read all of your post. If it is intended to be sarcastic .... what do you want to be sarcastic about ?
People are still trying to make this about Derek and not what he is saying about the business.This is not meant to be a lynch mob,but just some answers and accountability.
So what if you don't like Derek,so what if he is even wrong?What he is doing is at least make a developer accountable.
As a gamer or a person with any ethics at all,you should want answers,why would you not want answers?IMO if you don't want to give any answers you are hiding something and that is fact.
There was a tv star who ripped off thousands of dollars through crowd funding that was made accountable.She used the money to put her daughter through college,that is the kind of stuff people SHOULD know about,where is ALL the money going?
I doubt many realize that Kickstarter does not require names to be posted,sure we know who is behind this game but still Kickstarter is a very shotty operation with almost no standards for starting a kickstarter project.With the very poor standards Kickstarter operates under,EVERYONE should be asking questions instead of pointing the finger at Derek.
Also make no mistake,this is not YOUR game,it is only your money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
People are still trying to make this about Derek and not what he is saying about the business.
Nope, this is a respected gaming magazine (the biggest PC gaming magazine in German) testing Line of Defense according to the same standards demanded by Derek Smart.
And it so utterly fails that the author calls this a "catastrophe" and a "disgrace for the Steam Early Access program".
If someone demands something from anyone ... and FAILS UTTERLY himself w.r.t. to these standards .... why should i listen to anything he says or his demands ?
People are still trying to make this about Derek and not what he is saying about the business.
Nope, this is a respected gaming magazine (the biggest PC gaming magazine in German) testing Line of Defense according to the same standards demanded by Derek Smart.
And it so utterly fails that the author calls this a "catastrophe" and a "disgrace for the Steam Early Access program".
If someone demands something from anyone ... and FAILS UTTERLY himself w.r.t. to these standards .... why should i listen to anything he says or his demands ?
Have fun
You still spouting your bullshit, ain't you bored of reading your own rubbish.
You still spouting your bullshit, ain't you bored of reading your own rubbish.
I am quoting the international gaming press - read by a few hundred thousand people - and the Steam Statistics - which tracks the gaming habits of a few million people (OK, in the case of LoD ... only 2 people ;-) .
You still spouting your bullshit, ain't you bored of reading your own rubbish.
I am quoting the international gaming press - read by a few hundred thousand people - and the Steam Statistics - which tracks the gaming habits of a few million people (OK, in the case of LoD ... only 2 people ;-) .
What about you ?
Have fun
Thing is that CIG still havent adressed the real issue: How are they going to make the game promised when thier current engines dont support it, and they still havent shown anything remotely indicating they have a prototype of an engine actaully capable of handling the promised seemless universe?
That is the core issue that Mr. Smart originally presented, but CIG are trying damned hard to make it about everything but that.
Mr. Smart has made his mind up that they simply arent going to be able to deliver, that is his stand. CIG could close this by showing us something to prove they have/understand the tech needed to deliver not just a stand alone flight sim and stand alone FPS, but a seamless integrated product.
It is that simple to close the issue. So why dont they?
Comments
There's nothing wrong with an audit. It's who performs or has information to all the details of the audit that matters. Just because Derek Smart wants to know every single little inch of what is happening doesn't mean he should or has a right to.
Reality is (and Derek Smart knows this) the Star Citizen developers need to be left alone to develop. Due to the scope (which has increased, but not because of 'feature creep') and budget, this project is a 4 - 5 year project now. From what we're seeing now it appears to still be within that time frame.
As I said before, the backers were promised AT LEAST a sailboat; Star Citizen received funding for a battleship; so now -and this is ridiculous- Derek Smart is crying for the sailboat?
By this point, everyone should recognize Derek Smart's 'opinion', 'assertions', 'speculations', and non-existent 'sources' for what they are: PURE NONSENSE.
No.... no... I think that Steam spy would disagree. The development staff MIGHT play the game, but apart from that there are very few who do.
I've actually worked as a level designer and in business development in the game industry before I moved out of the games industry to pursue a career that didn't include 60-hour work weeks. However, I do still work in the software industry. Also, I'm currently working on an MMO while I'm teaching my kids software development. Figured it would be a good way to engage them. So my team size is actually only 5. Keeping in mind that they have zero experience in the industry, we do already have a game world, world server and basic combat. I'm thinking we'll probably be able to have it done in 2 years. Don't quote me on that, though, I don't want people to tell me I'm a liar and a scammer when I don't hit that date.
Also, I wasn't aware that you actually needed to submit your resume before criticising games on the Internet. I'll make sure to do that next time. That being said, Derek Smart hasn't really made any games either, so just because he pressed the compile button doesn't mean he has any idea how to make a game (or check it for quality for that matter).
Maybe if he spent as much time concerned about his own games as he does trolling on everyone else's, he'd actually have something halfway passable as a game.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I'll rent you my basement, but I doubt you could afford it.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
But of course !
If it isn't "trending", nobody can be bothered. The topic will go dormant until the next headline-worthy event...
That's ok, I think he's gone now anyway. I am fairly certain I heard him retreating screaming, "Oh no, logic! My only weakness!"
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
this thread can't be dead yet, I just made more popcorn
I will just toss in that I am a backer for this, even though I don't normally play space sims, I just respected what they are trying to do with SC, and so far I am glad that I backed the project. The Arena Commander while limited is solid (IMO) and they have done enough with it that I am looking forward to the rest of the game, and I am willing to give them the time needed to make THEIR game.
I guess that would be MY demand, I demand RSI make their game, even if I hate it upon release. I want this game to be every thing they want it to be, and hope it is a commercial and critical success so we can get more games made by and for gamers and less games made by focus tests and board members. I want publishers to give devs time it takes to make a good game, fix bugs, and release a solid product instead of sending out steaming piles that will take months of patches to get it to a playable state. I understand it all comes down to return on investment, but if they see a trend that they will get better profit for releasing a quality product on day 1 then they will shift to ensure this.
I also understand that we as gamers play a major roll in this as well. We still buy our broken games, still support them, and forgive them. it's kind of like a little kid, as long as we allow them to do it, they will.
Wow, I guess I got a bit off of my original point there, but oh well.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
The 'big bad publishers" keep things on track.
If the developers had their way they would develop indefinably because hey: who doesn't want job security?
I really don't understand why it is to hard to develop a games scope and estimate a games eta based on resources vs time scheduled. all these game devs that say "we ran out of time" obviously didn't manage their scope or resources and got their plug pulled.
Star citizen didn't have a fixed scope and didn't estimate reasonable a release date which is why they are in the mess they are.
if they were up front and said: "this is what were doing, its going to take 5 years" then i personally would of allowed them a bit more merit but instead we got:
Unlimited scope + unlimited resources = no fucking reason to release ever.
Which is a shame because im waiting to push that purchase button once the game is launched.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
What kind of mess? Crusaders trying to bring SC down or discredit Chris Roberts? That´s no mess just normal in that kind of game development. There is no mess... the mess ist just exaggerated by haters and due to the open development. We get to see things we normally don´t get to see. And due to this fact there is more discussion about decisions, departments, changes etc.
But the thing is: The scope was limited when the stretchgoal 65mio was achieved. The ressurces are also not unlimited. I don´t know where you got this info from?
Nothing against constructive critisism as it is very necessary to keep things on track and correct things.
But your approach is good. Waiting for the game to release and then decide whether you want to spend money or not.
Lol, no, publishers don't keep things on track. They do control the purse strings, though, so at any given time you could be calling a game feature complete, regardless of scope. Developers do NOT define the scope of the game. There are designers, writers, creative directors, artists, etc. all of whom will contribute to the scope of a project. Also, these people are NOT interested in an indefinite project.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
as with any project crap happens. some times something that should be simple turns out the be one of the hardest parts. it's the fun job of the project manager to come up with the estimates based on experience and what little data you can find. SC is doing something different so they don't have much data to pull from.
I will agree that publishers keep things on track, but that is all they care about. They are like South Korean bus drivers (not being racist, just talk to any one who has ever been there) Their main goal is to get to their next stop on time, traffic laws and slower cars be damned. Some publishers, I can't say all or most, only care about hitting a target window to maximize their profit and minimize their investment. While this is an effective way to run a business it can lead to some of the issues that are becoming common.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
Derek's momentum has completely stopped. I'd say CIG has handled it totally professionally and called his bluff.
I'm not a backer or believer in the game but it didn't take long for me to take their side once the true Derek showed his face.
Uh...sure they do. That's one of their main jobs. And they also do define the cope of the game. If developer A has a great idea for a game, Publisher B is likely to tell them to modify it in certain ways so as to appeal to the largest audience. That's a scope change...
Funny thing...this is exactly what happened to me. I've thought poorly about the game, the selling of ideas for ships, etc...but man, this Derek Smart dude needs to get a healthy punch in the scrotum and just stfu already.
http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/29310/article/star-citizen-s-business-model-branded-unsustainable/
Here is a fun one. The Derek links this article in his Twitter feed ... and basically ALL comments following this article give The Derek and/or the article author a piece of their mind in no uncertain terms. I doubt The Derek has read the comments before he linked it ;-)
Warning: the following contains a lot of speculative numbers and assumptions (insert your own and recalculate)
Its also interesting for me to read about the unsustainability of this project. CIG currently has 255 employees. Lets assume that ON AVERAGE every employee costs 6500 $ per month.
http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/computer-programmer/salary
Thats about 1,7 million $ in wages per month. Lets assume CIG spends another half million on contractors and infrastructure (=most of the hardware has already been bought by now). Of the 85 M$ raised for the project quite a bit has been spend already, but in previous years the number of employees was significantly lower. In my guestimate (!) there are 60 M$ ish left. With a spending of 2.2 M$ per month that amounts to about 27 months (= 2 years 3 months) or until November 2017. You can add to that every additional money coming in the next two years ... if its another 11 M$ (and thats an extremely conservative estimate) you get another half a year (until May 2018) covered. For comparison ... in the last two years on the average around 2.5 M$ were added per month through crowdfunding.
I personally expect Squadron 42 to be ready sometime in 2016. I suspect it will sell well. Lets assume 650.000 copies in addition to those who pledged (taken from the example Elite:Dangerous .. shows approx the size of the interested buyer segment above and beyond the initial backers). At 55 $ per game that would be around 36 M$ from sales. Production costs a bit, at some time CIG owners want some profit too, all the CIG eymployess want a bonus for completion ... . Lets say .. another 14 M$ are available for pushing the development of the Persistent Universe forward. Its December 2018 now.
Even with a moderate delay the persistent Universe should launch sometime in 2017. In the meantime some people will buy Part 3 of the SQ42 missions .... gets you into 2019. etc. etc.
IMHO not as "unsustainable" as some people claim.
Have fun
Some interesting news from the press :
"Line of Defense" ... from Derek Smart.
Here is a recent article from the largest German gaming magazine GAMESTAR (in German --> Google Translator FTW, if you cannot understand the language, just watch the video ;-)
http://www.gamestar.de/
http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/line-of-defense/artikel/line_of_defense,48160,3234021.html#top
https://youtu.be/t7n29gEV18w
Some quotes from the summary : "Cardboard figures and Blindmans Buff" , " ....an absolute impudence of a game , that is abusing the Steam Early Access Program...", " Line of Defense is the complete bankruptcy of the developer Derek Smart "
And to top it all off, when the author was sending his bug reports to Derek Smart (exactly the way they should be reported), he was kicked from the forum for trolling and perma-banned (here is the transcript):
http://steamcommunity.com/app/266620/discussions/3/535150948617267965/
If someone demands ANYTHING from another gaming company, they first should take a CLOSE LOOK at their own games ... "Stone, meet glasshouse !"
Have fun
PS:
Derek Smart's reaction:
"So apparently this "Ben" guy is from the German magazine gamestar.de and they created this account and bogus tech support issues specifically to troll us. No doubt because they're Star Citizen fanboys and they don't like my blogs about it. And as expected, they now they have an entire article up about it."
I guess he never took the time to check out the Star Citizen articles on GameStar. If he did, he would not call them fanboys !
PPS:
It gets better
http://steamcommunity.com/app/266620/discussions/0/535151589903956981/
Now Derek Smart says that GameStar is too dumb to update their graphic drivers ... and of course he locked the thread.
Should someone tell him that GameStar has its own Hardware group that knows all the information one can know about correctly setting up test rigs for just about any test ?
The test rig that they used to run LoD handles Witcher 3 smoothly on ultra settings. In LOD they get under 10 fps, with the screen being mostly black.
http://steamcharts.com/app/266620#7d
Last 7 days. Peak online = 2 players. Last 30 days = 4 players (which was an improvement of +66 % compared to May)
Peak Online = 2 players. ONE is most likely Derek Smart. The OTHER is the GameStar Tester ;-)
ROFL.
Valve Moderator answer w.r.t. GameStar author being banned:
"Looking up the forum I can see it's Moderated by a certain person that is known by the Moderator team to be quite bad at Moderating.
So at this point I wouldn't even bother with their games. If they keep censoring people so much just don't support the company. It'll hurt them in the end."
but that would imply that they didn't like his game because of specific and valid reasons, and that is unacceptable. Just like every one who doesn't like me, or agree with me are the people that are wrong. It's not my fault they don't like having beef gravy dumped on their heads as soon as they get out of the shower.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
They give very specific and very valid reasons in the article.
For instance : Headline "Line of Defense »has stopped working<<"... as in :
"Bei unseren Versuchen, die anderen drei Maps zu betreten, verzichtete das Spiel dann konsequenterweise komplett auf jegliche Beleuchtung, der Bildschirm war bis auf die Minimap und Waffenanzeige schwarz. Tiefschwarz. Die Bildrate dieser Grafikanomalie betrug dabei regelmäßig weniger als 10 fps!"
"During our attempts to enter the other three maps, the game consistently forgoes any kind of lightning .. completely. The screen was black with the exception of the minimap and the weapon display. DEEPLY BLACK. The framerate of this graphical anomaly was routinely below 10 fps."
It goes on an on in quite some detail.
Have fun
did you read the rest of my post? I know that sarcasm doesn't always work, but I thought the thing about pouring gravy one people as the exit the shower was a dead giveaway I wasn't serious.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
I did read all of your post. If it is intended to be sarcastic .... what do you want to be sarcastic about ?
1) Derek Smart ?
2) Line of Defense ?
3) Star Citizen ?
4) GameStar ?
5) Something else, its XXXX ?
Have fun
People are still trying to make this about Derek and not what he is saying about the business.This is not meant to be a lynch mob,but just some answers and accountability.
So what if you don't like Derek,so what if he is even wrong?What he is doing is at least make a developer accountable.
As a gamer or a person with any ethics at all,you should want answers,why would you not want answers?IMO if you don't want to give any answers you are hiding something and that is fact.
There was a tv star who ripped off thousands of dollars through crowd funding that was made accountable.She used the money to put her daughter through college,that is the kind of stuff people SHOULD know about,where is ALL the money going?
I doubt many realize that Kickstarter does not require names to be posted,sure we know who is behind this game but still Kickstarter is a very shotty operation with almost no standards for starting a kickstarter project.With the very poor standards Kickstarter operates under,EVERYONE should be asking questions instead of pointing the finger at Derek.
Also make no mistake,this is not YOUR game,it is only your money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Nope, this is a respected gaming magazine (the biggest PC gaming magazine in German) testing Line of Defense according to the same standards demanded by Derek Smart.
And it so utterly fails that the author calls this a "catastrophe" and a "disgrace for the Steam Early Access program".
If someone demands something from anyone ... and FAILS UTTERLY himself w.r.t. to these standards .... why should i listen to anything he says or his demands ?
Have fun
You still spouting your bullshit, ain't you bored of reading your own rubbish.
I am quoting the international gaming press - read by a few hundred thousand people - and the Steam Statistics - which tracks the gaming habits of a few million people (OK, in the case of LoD ... only 2 people ;-) .
What about you ?
Have fun
Thing is that CIG still havent adressed the real issue: How are they going to make the game promised when thier current engines dont support it, and they still havent shown anything remotely indicating they have a prototype of an engine actaully capable of handling the promised seemless universe?
That is the core issue that Mr. Smart originally presented, but CIG are trying damned hard to make it about everything but that.
Mr. Smart has made his mind up that they simply arent going to be able to deliver, that is his stand. CIG could close this by showing us something to prove they have/understand the tech needed to deliver not just a stand alone flight sim and stand alone FPS, but a seamless integrated product.
It is that simple to close the issue. So why dont they?
That is what you should be wondering about.
Ahem, Cloud Imperium Games was founded in April 2012.
https://cloudimperiumgames.com/about
Kickstarter campaign was in October 2012.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen
My answer to your question - What timeframe is acceptable for me personally ?
2016 for the Squadron 42 solo game
End of 2016, beginning of 2017 for the Persistent Universe Multiplayer part.
Thats the 4-5 year development time I expect for an AAA title, especially for an AAA MMO title.
Have fun